RE: WIRELESS THEFT

[Orion Robillard <orion () advanced-workflow com>]

Good point cd's and movies cannot be freely copied and distributed under
law. Its hard to notice the big FBI warning at the beginning of movies. But
its not the same with wireless. They have posted no warning or attempted to
keep their signal secure. If their signal transgresses upon your property
use it. If the RIAA set up a sting concert in my neighbors back yard they
cant charge me admission for listening in my house. If someone started
tossing $$$ over my fence im going to pick it up.

But we already know the music concert is a bad example as stated below.

-----Original Message-----
From: James Dennis
To: Orion Robillard
Cc: security-basics () securityfocus com
Sent: 10/17/2002 7:19 PM
Subject: Re: WIRELESS THEFT

This is not correct. Under current law the potential for money to be
made is the loss. It's the same way the RIAA goes after file sharing
companies. If someone has the mp3's, they probably won't buy the cd now
(under their logic), so now there is a lost potential purchase.
-James

On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 14:36:55 -0500
Orion Robillard <orion () advanced-workflow com> wrote:

> The only problem with the outside movie/concert analogy is that
watching a
> move or listening to a concert is a purely passive activity and
results in
> no (direct) loss of money to the concert/movie provider. Connecting to
a
> wireless network (assuming you want to surf not just sniff)  requires
you to
> become an active participant. You could claim that you were just
> broadcasting random packets into space and it just so happened that
the
> random packets you sent established a connection with your neighbors
> network. However you will be using bandwidth and that means money out
of
> pocket for your 'host'.
>
> I would say as long as you aren't causing more then a reasonable
amount of
> traffic and you aren't breaking even the simplest of locks, you don't
have
> much to worry about.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jay D. Dyson [mailto:jdyson () treachery net]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 3:18 PM
> To: Security-Basics List
> Subject: Re: WIRELESS THEFT
>
>
>
> *** PGP Signature Status: good
> *** Signer: Jay D. Dyson <jdyson () treachery net> (Invalid)
> *** Signed: 10/16/2002 3:17:55 PM
> *** Verified: 10/17/2002 2:24:37 PM
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>
> On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Amit P. Gandre wrote: 
>
> > Can someone tell me if there are any laws regarding wireless theft? 
> >
> > One of the apartment complexes near mine has free wireless
connections
> > offered to their residents. Now, my computer happens to catch that
> > signal. 
> >
> > Now, is that illegal. If so, how should I go about dealing with this
> > issue. 
>
>       This is one of those large grey areas in which technological
> evolution has far outpaced the law.  As a consequence, anything you
read
> on this forum will be the idle musings and personal opinions of the
laity.
> With that in mind, I'd recommend you consult with an attorney about
the
> actual legalities.
>
>       That said, here's how I see it: the service is offered for free
to
> qualified individuals, but it is disseminated in such a way that its
> availability exceeds its boundaries.  Sort of like an outside movie or
> music concert.  It's not held for the outsider's enjoyment, but the
> outsider can see and hear it from their living room window.  With that
> sort of perspective, there is no harm nor foul.  It's simple
spillover.
>       There is also the view that if you receive something you didn't
> order, then it is yours for free and you may do with it as you wish.
This
> is the law of the land regarding packages received via the U.S. postal
> service.  Again, under this perspective, there is no harm nor foul and
the
> sender must eat the loss. 
>
>       However, there is yet another perspective that would view your
use
> of those signals as Unauthorized Access (nevermind that there may well
be
> absolutely no authorizing authentication in place).  You're not one of
the
> intended recipients of the signal and your use constitutes
unauthorized
> (and thus illegal) access of a computer network.  (This is where the
media
> steps in and calls you a "computer whiz kid" and "genius hacker"
simply
> because you actually read the freaking manual and know how to use your
> technology.)
>
>       Speaking only for myself and not recommending this to anyone
else,
> I'd probably ride that signal while it lasts and argue that the open
> signal was brought to me when I did not request it and thus it is
free. 
> If the nearby building wants to lock it down so I can't use it, then
> that's fine.  But until then, they can have my wireless NIC when they
pry
> it from my cold dead hands.  ;)
>
> -Jay
>
>   (    (
_______
>   ))   ))   .--"There's always time for a good cup of coffee"--.
> ====<--.
> C|~~|C|~~| (>------ Jay D. Dyson -- jdyson () treachery net ------<) |
= |-'
>  `--' `--'  `- Your security is no joke.  Well...okay, it is. -'
`------'
> *** END PGP VERIFIED MESSAGE ***