Re: Apparently Milgram is still right

[Gadi Evron <ge () linuxbox org>]

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008, Alex Eckelberry wrote:
> True, and there is a point of ethics vs. morals.  But in the end,
> there's a line that, IMHO, shouldn't be crossed.

The participants themselves were manipulated. Their ethics are fine, they 
are simply not aware of what's going on or how to resist it.

Smart people as we may be, we all treat dozens of things automatically, 
which can be abused. Belief in authority is one thing.. training for 
suspended disbelief in movies is another.

The ethical issue here is the experiment being conducted.


> Besides, at a purely ethical level, torture is a low-quality
> interrogation technique.  It's overrated in its effectiveness, and
> creates boomerang effects which don't benefit an overall cause.
>
> Nevertheless, even arguing torture at a logical level is difficult for
> me.  It's just reprehensible, not because of some pacificist ideology:
> Because beating the living shit out of someone for information brings us
> to the level of animals, and that's what we've been trying to evolve
> from for a very long time.
>
> Something Matthew Alexander spoke and wrote of recently:
>
> http://snipurl.com/8wosv
>
>
> Alex
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: funsec-bounces () linuxbox org [mailto:funsec-bounces () linuxbox org]
> On Behalf Of Tomas L. Byrnes
> Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 8:19 PM
> To: Gadi Evron; Rob, grandpa of Ryan, Trevor, Devon & Hannah
> Cc: funsec () linuxbox org; cissp-ethics () yahoogroups com
> Subject: Re: [funsec] Apparently Milgram is still right
>
> I guess it depends on who you think you owe an ethical duty to, doesn't
> it.
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: funsec-bounces () linuxbox org [mailto:funsec-bounces () linuxbox org]
> > On Behalf Of Gadi Evron
> > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 4:11 PM
> > To: Rob, grandpa of Ryan, Trevor, Devon & Hannah
> > Cc: funsec () linuxbox org; cissp-ethics () yahoogroups com
> > Subject: Re: [funsec] Apparently Milgram is still right
> >
> > On Fri, 19 Dec 2008, Rob, grandpa of Ryan, Trevor, Devon & Hannah
> wrote:
> > > People are still willing to torture people, when told to do so by an
> > authority.
> > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/-/2/hi/health/7791278.stm
> > >
> > > This may explain some recent happenings, but it is still disturbing,
> > nonetheless.
> > > We in infosec, and members of society as a whole, have to push harder
> > on the
> > > ethics front.
> >
> > What does this have to do with ethics?
> > It's a trick question, think before answering. :)
> >
> >
> > > ======================  (quote inserted randomly by Pegasus Mailer)
> > > rslade () vcn bc ca     slade () victoria tc ca
> rslade () computercrime org
> > > This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have
>
> > > set before you life and death, blessings and curses.  Now
> > > choose life....                                  - Deuteronomy 30:19
> > > victoria.tc.ca/techrev/rms.htm
> > blogs.securiteam.com/index.php/archives/author/p1/
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts.
> > > https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec
> > > Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts.
> > https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec
> > Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts.
> https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec
> Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list.
_______________________________________________
Fun and Misc security discussion for OT posts.
https://linuxbox.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/funsec
Note: funsec is a public and open mailing list.