Re: Apparently Milgram is still right

[Blue Boar <BlueBoar () thievco com>]

It's not the volts, it's the amps.

                                        BB

Tomas L. Byrnes wrote:
> The experiment is a dual one:
>
> 1: How far can someone be manipulated.
>
> 2: Are people really such sheep?
>
> My unscientific gut says that if you took the sample primarily from the
> US Military, you'd get lots of demurs.
>
> The average Joe doesn't know what voltage is likely to hurt, or what the
> laws of land warfare are.
>
> I think all this proves is that humans are highly influenced by their
> social environment.
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Gadi Evron [mailto:ge () linuxbox org]
> > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 11:04 PM
> > To: Alex Eckelberry
> > Cc: Tomas L. Byrnes; Rob, grandpa of Ryan, Trevor, Devon & Hannah;
> > funsec () linuxbox org; cissp-ethics () yahoogroups com
> > Subject: RE: [funsec] Apparently Milgram is still right
> >
> > On Fri, 19 Dec 2008, Alex Eckelberry wrote:
> > > True, and there is a point of ethics vs. morals.  But in the end,
> > > there's a line that, IMHO, shouldn't be crossed.
> > The participants themselves were manipulated. Their ethics are fine,
> > they
> > are simply not aware of what's going on or how to resist it.
> >
> > Smart people as we may be, we all treat dozens of things automatically,
> > which can be abused. Belief in authority is one thing.. training for
> > suspended disbelief in movies is another.
> >
> > The ethical issue here is the experiment being conducted.
> >
> >
> > > Besides, at a purely ethical level, torture is a low-quality
> > > interrogation technique.  It's overrated in its effectiveness, and
> > > creates boomerang effects which don't benefit an overall cause.
> > >
> > > Nevertheless, even arguing torture at a logical level is difficult
> for
> > > me.  It's just reprehensible, not because of some pacificist
> ideology:
> > > Because beating the living shit out of someone for information brings
> > us
> > > to the level of animals, and that's what we've been trying to evolve
> > > from for a very long time.
> > >
> > > Something Matthew Alexander spoke and wrote of recently:
> > >
> > > http://snipurl.com/8wosv
> > >
> > >
> > > Alex
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: funsec-bounces () linuxbox org
> [mailto:funsec-bounces () linuxbox org]
> > > On Behalf Of Tomas L. Byrnes
> > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 8:19 PM
> > > To: Gadi Evron; Rob, grandpa of Ryan, Trevor, Devon & Hannah
> > > Cc: funsec () linuxbox org; cissp-ethics () yahoogroups com
> > > Subject: Re: [funsec] Apparently Milgram is still right
> > >
> > > I guess it depends on who you think you owe an ethical duty to,
> > doesn't
> > > it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: funsec-bounces () linuxbox org [mailto:funsec-
> > bounces () linuxbox org]
> > > > On Behalf Of Gadi Evron
> > > > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 4:11 PM
> > > > To: Rob, grandpa of Ryan, Trevor, Devon & Hannah
> > > > Cc: funsec () linuxbox org; cissp-ethics () yahoogroups com
> > > > Subject: Re: [funsec] Apparently Milgram is still right
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 19 Dec 2008, Rob, grandpa of Ryan, Trevor, Devon & Hannah
> > > wrote:
> > > > > People are still willing to torture people, when told to do so by
> an
> > > > authority.
> > > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/-/2/hi/health/7791278.stm
> > > > >
> > > > > This may explain some recent happenings, but it is still
> disturbing,
> > > > nonetheless.
> > > > > We in infosec, and members of society as a whole, have to push
> > harder
> > > > on the
> > > > > ethics front.
> > > > What does this have to do with ethics?
> > > > It's a trick question, think before answering. :)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > ======================  (quote inserted randomly by Pegasus Mailer)
> > > > > rslade () vcn bc ca     slade () victoria tc ca
> > > rslade () computercrime org
> > > > > This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I
> > have
> > > > > set before you life and death, blessings and curses.  Now
> > > > > choose life....                                  - Deuteronomy
> 30:19
> > > > > victoria.tc.ca/techrev/rms.htm
> > > > blogs.securiteam.com/index.php/archives/author/p1/
> > > > > _______________________________________________
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>
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