Re: Observations of an Internet Middleman (Level3) (was: RIP Network Neutrality

[Owen DeLong <owen () delong com>]

I don’t disagree.  However, given the choice between Comcast and broadband services in NL, Chatanooga, or Seoul, just 
to name a few, Comcast loses badly.

Choosing between Comcast and a legacy Telco is like choosing between legionnaire’s disease and SARS.

Owen

On May 14, 2014, at 5:15 PM, Jared Mauch <jared () puck nether net> wrote:

> Owen,
>
> I've seen a vast difference between Comcast and others in the "marketplace".  Right now, if I had the choice between 
> Comcast and a "legacy" telco, I would pick Comcast hands-down for:
>
> a) performance
> b) IPv6 support
> c) willingness to work on issues
>
> - Jared
>
> On May 14, 2014, at 5:14 PM, McElearney, Kevin <Kevin_McElearney () cable comcast com> wrote:
>
> > Respectfully, this is a highly inaccurate "sound bite"
> >
> >    - Kevin
> >
> > 215-313-1083
> >
> > > On May 14, 2014, at 3:05 PM, "Owen DeLong" <owen () delong com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Yes, the more accurate statement would be aggressively seeking new
> > > ways to monetize the existing infrastructure without investing in upgrades
> > > or additional buildout any more than absolutely necessary.
> > >
> > > Owen
> > >
> > > On May 14, 2014, at 8:02 AM, Hugo Slabbert <hugo () slabnet com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > So they seek new sources of revenues, and/or attempt to thwart
> > > > > > competition any way they can.
> > > > No to the first. Yes to the second. If they were seeking new sources of
> > > > > revenue, they'd be massively expanding into un/der served markets and
> > > > > aggressively growing over the top services (which are fat margin).
> > > >
> > > > Sure they are (seeking new sources of revenue).  They're not necessarily
> > > > creating new products or services, i.e. actually adding any value, but they
> > > > are finding ways to extract additional revenue from the same pipes, e.g.
> > > > through paid peering with content providers.
> > > >
> > > > I'm not endorsing this; just pointing out that you two are actually in
> > > > agreement here.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Hugo
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 7:23 AM, <charles () thefnf org> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On 2014-05-14 02:04, Jean-Francois Mezei wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 14-05-13 22:50, Daniel Staal wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They have the money.  They have the ability to get more money.  *They see
> > > > > > > no reason to spend money making customers happy.*  They can make more
> > > > > > > profit without it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is the issue of control over the market. But also the pressure
> > > > > > from shareholders for continued growth.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes. That is true. Except that it's not.
> > > > >
> > > > > How do service providers grow? Let's explore that:
> > > > >
> > > > > What is growth for a transit provider?
> > > > >
> > > > > More (new) access network(s) (connections).
> > > > > More bandwidth across backbone pipes.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What is growth for access network?
> > > > > More subscribers.
> > > > >
> > > > > Except that the incumbent carriers have shown they have no interest in
> > > > > providing decent bandwidth to anywhere but the most profitable rate
> > > > > centers. I'd say about 2/3 of the USA is served with quite terrible access.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > The problem with the internet is that while it had promises of wild
> > > > > > growth in the 90s and 00s, once penetration reaches a certain level,
> > > > > > growth stabilizes.
> > > > >
> > > > > Penetration is ABYSMAL sir. Huge swaths of underserved americans exist.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > When you combine this with threath to large incumbents's media and media
> > > > > > distribution endeavours by the likes of Netflix (and cat videos on
> > > > > > Youtube), large incumbents start thinking about how they will be able to
> > > > > > continue to grow revenus/profits when customers will shift spending to
> > > > > > vspecialty channels/cableTV to Netflix and customer growth will not
> > > > > > compensate.
> > > > >
> > > > > Except they aren't. Even in the most profitable rate centers, they've
> > > > > declined to really invest in the networks. They aren't a real business. You
> > > > > have to remember that. They have regulatory capture, natural/defacto
> > > > > monopoly etc etc. They don't operate in the real world of
> > > > > risk/reward/profit/loss/uncertainty like any other real business has to.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > So they seek new sources of revenues, and/or attempt to thwart
> > > > > > competition any way they can.
> > > > >
> > > > > No to the first. Yes to the second. If they were seeking new sources of
> > > > > revenue, they'd be massively expanding into un/der served markets and
> > > > > aggressively growing over the top services (which are fat margin). They did
> > > > > a bit of an advertising campaign of "smart home" offerings, but that seems
> > > > > to have never grown beyond a pilot.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > The current trend is to "if you can't fight them, jon them" where
> > > > > > cablecos start to include the Netflix app into their proprietary set-top
> > > > > > boxes. The idea is that you at least make the customer continue to use
> > > > > > your box and your remote control which makes it easier for them to
> > > > > > switch between netflix and legacy TV.
> > > > > True. I don't know why one of the cablecos hasn't licensed roku, added
> > > > > cable card and made that available as a "hip/cool" set top box offering and
> > > > > charge another 10.00 a month on top of the standard dvr rental.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Would be interesting to see if those cable companies that are agreeing
> > > > > > to add the Netflix app onto their proprietary STBs also  play peering
> > > > > > capacity games to degrade the service or not.
> > > > >
> > > > > So how is the content delivered? Is it over the internet? Or is it over
> > > > > the cable plant, from cable headends?