Full Disclosure mailing list archives
Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom
From: Charles Morris <cmorris () cs odu edu>
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 04:53:12 -0500
Dear Valdis and whoever else; The really ridiculous points are the following: A) Every time you execute/install/download a program you are committing evil data theft by not only copying "secret" or "illegal" information into RAM/Disk/Registers/Buffers/Busses/photons coming off the screen/human memory/history of the universe but potentially not just your physical property but on hundreds of routers and deduplication boxen around the earth. B) You can't "copyright" or "own" a number, all digital representations are numbers, due to the boolean nature (no fuzzy data), etc. C) Any data is a form of any other data given a specific transform, e.g. manifold / encryption key + algo, something as trivial as XOR D) You guys already know these points so why do we even care anymore about what these people say? Why even have these conversations. They will never stop. It's about greed and shortsightedness, not about what is moral or logical. Just try to ignore them or change the subject when the parrots start talking. And to preempt the flames from the blind, Yes I feel artists should be compensated for their contribution. It's 5am- bye. On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 5:26 PM, <Valdis.Kletnieks () vt edu> wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 19:02:09 PST, "Zach C." said:If you buy an album used, the seller generally loses possession of it, you gain possession of it at a reduced cost, and the original purchase still gave the original seller and producer value.Note that if I shoplift a CD that sucks and isn't worth the $14.99 sticker price, I have deprived the producer of the ability to sell it to somebody else. That's the crucial point that underlies our social concept of "theft" - if I take it from you, you don't have it anymore. If I copy an album that isn't worth the sticker price, and which I would not have purchased at that price, two things of note happen: 1) As much as the labels wish it were so, they can't count that as "lost revenue" because it wouldn't have acccrued to them anyhow, any more than a car dealership can legitimately call it "lost revenue" if I walk onto their lot, tell the salescritter they're crazy if they think I'll pay $28K for a given car, and walk off the lot. (Now, if they want to count the "Damn, we lost the $4.99 that guy *would* have paid if we charged that instead of $14.99", they're welcome to that. :) 2) More importantly, they still have the original bits and are free to look for other suckers who *will* pay $14.99. For the record, all my media is legitimately acquired, though a large portion *was* obtained used and if the producers don't like that, they're welcome to go re-read "first sale doctrine" ;) Just trying to make people actually engage their neurons - this stuff is *not* easy to sort out, because intellectual property and digital information do *not* behave the same as cars and cows in the physical world, and unintended consequences of policy decisions are all *over* the place. (DMCA anti-circumvention clause prohibiting me from fair-use accessing my own media, I'm looking at you. :) _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
_______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Current thread:
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom, (continued)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Zach C. (Jan 27)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Valdis . Kletnieks (Jan 28)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Christian Sciberras (Jan 28)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Benjamin Kreuter (Jan 28)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Ferenc Kovacs (Jan 28)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Christian Sciberras (Jan 28)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Valdis . Kletnieks (Jan 28)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Christian Sciberras (Jan 28)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Laurelai (Jan 28)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Ferenc Kovacs (Jan 28)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Charles Morris (Jan 29)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Ferenc Kovacs (Jan 29)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Valdis . Kletnieks (Jan 29)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Byron L. Sonne (Jan 29)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Christian Sciberras (Jan 29)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Mike Hale (Jan 29)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Christian Sciberras (Jan 30)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Mike Hale (Jan 30)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Christian Sciberras (Jan 30)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Zach C. (Jan 30)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Valdis . Kletnieks (Jan 30)