Full Disclosure mailing list archives
Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom
From: "Zach C." <fxchip () gmail com>
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 01:22:23 -0800
Just to be clear, what's been done in the name of intellectual property protection is fucking ridiculous. I just do not see how getting something someone put a non-zero value of work and materials into without even so much as asking or being given permission from the person who made it is somehow not even at the very least disrespectful. Even if it is "just a reproduction", it took effort to create, and you must figure it's worth something or you wouldn't have expended the effort to reproduce it to begin with. (Fair use being the main exception there, but fair use usually implies something distinctive being done to the work, too, as opposed to minor editing/shitty encoding. Feel free to correct!) To be honest and realistic, nothing can ever be done to stop copying. Ever. Nor should it. I'm just saying I consider "there's no harm in it" to be a myth in most cases. At the core of it, I think copyright's a totally valid thing to have, if only to stop plagiarism. Its implementation, however... (I don't see my stance changing in the near future, either. I'm sorry, I'm kind of rigid in that line of thought and I haven't heard or read anything yet to adequately address everything.) Anyway; back to lurking for me. :) On Jan 30, 2012 12:17 AM, "Christian Sciberras" <uuf6429 () gmail com> wrote:
Uhm, that was a ridiculous situation anyway (@illegal primes). So lets leave it at 'not necessarily'. On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 9:08 AM, Mike Hale <eyeronic.design () gmail com>wrote:Not necessarily. Look at the effects of people posting DeCSS and the HDDVD keys a while back. The industry ended up giving in precisely because people said, en masse, "fuck off". On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 12:05 AM, Christian Sciberras <uuf6429 () gmail com> wrote:No, it follows the fact that vengeance (the "fuck you" Byron mentioned) isn't fruitful to remedy the situation. On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 8:54 AM, Mike Hale <eyeronic.design () gmail com> wrote:What you said doesn't follow. Making a digital copy isn't burning down a business. The analogy linking 'piracy' with theft is ludicrous. On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 11:50 PM, Christian Sciberras <uuf6429 () gmail com>wrote:Byron, you don't protest to the government by burning down100-year-oldbusiness, if you know what I mean... On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 12:12 AM, Byron L. Sonne <byron.sonne () gmail com>wrote:The thing that makes me laugh about all of this, and one of the key things I learned from reading Gibbon's Decline & Fall is this: The number and frequency of laws passed regarding things directly relates to how widespread these things are, and how they much thelawsare ignored and ineffective. Laws can't prevent a damn thing, theycanonly specify remedies. As it is said, "it's only illegal if you get caught". The cat is out of the bag and will never be put back in. There's nowayto stop people from 'illegally' copying copyrighted material. If they somehow managed to require and implement tech so thatperfectdigital copies can't be made (unlikely) then people will simply useacamera to record the video as it plays on the screen. Hey, wait a minute, that sounds just like that screener I downloaded someonetapedin Russia! ;) If they manage to require and implement tech so that you can'ttrade itover the internet (unlikely) then people will simply trade it on private networks or, like we used to do in the old days, via sneakernet. The problem is that in an attempt to control the dissemination of copyrighted material (and people are right, artists do have a righttoreap the benefits of their effort) the powers-that-be are steppingoverthe line and into territory that impacts our ability to communicateinthe fashion we choose. It might be fine to try and prevent piracy but in the process ofdoingso you are trashing the other desires of people that have nothingto dowith piracy. I'm sure if the copyright lobby had their way, they'd require us to wear special glasses in order to see our laptop screens, on theassumptionthat anything not explicitly licensed was assumed to be unlicensed,andthus pirated, which we would be blocked from our field of view...andas a result, some girl/guy who wants to write a simple freeware text editor now has to jump through regulatory hoops and spend money to obtain a special registration that allows their text editor to display to the screen. This is a cheesy example, but I think it makes the point. In the guise of 'protecting artists and businesses' what ishappeningis that the powers-that-be are requesting (and too often getting)powersthat allow them to trample on the general idea of freedom of communications and other things people cherish. As a result, people are inclined to engage in the very behavioursthatelicited the laws and crackdowns, quite simply, as a way to raisetheirmiddle finger and say "Fuck You". This is when piracy and theft becomes freedom of expression - whenit'sdone in protest. -- http://www.freebyron.org _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/_______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/-- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0-- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0_______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
_______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Current thread:
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom, (continued)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Ferenc Kovacs (Jan 28)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Charles Morris (Jan 29)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Ferenc Kovacs (Jan 29)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Valdis . Kletnieks (Jan 29)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Byron L. Sonne (Jan 29)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Christian Sciberras (Jan 29)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Mike Hale (Jan 29)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Christian Sciberras (Jan 30)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Mike Hale (Jan 30)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Christian Sciberras (Jan 30)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Zach C. (Jan 30)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Valdis . Kletnieks (Jan 30)
- This is when piracy/theft become expression of freedom Byron L. Sonne (Jan 29)
- Re: This is when piracy/theft become expression of freedom Valdis . Kletnieks (Jan 29)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom coderman (Jan 29)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Benjamin Kreuter (Jan 28)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Laurelai (Jan 28)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Julius Kivimäki (Jan 30)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Laurelai (Jan 28)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Christian Sciberras (Jan 28)
- Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of freedom Laurelai (Jan 28)