Re: VPN providers and any providers in general...

[Jeffrey Walton <noloader () gmail com>]

On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 10:19 PM, xD 0x41 <secn3t () gmail com> wrote:
> This is ONCE you are actually in front, of the judge...remember, it may take
> some breaking of civil liberty, for this to happen... or i maybe wrong.
> cheers
Yep. Though some are probably not nice people, the Guantanamo Bay
detainees were denied US Constitutional Rights (so said the US Supreme
Court, 3 times).

The folks who perverted our highest laws and precepts were not brought
up on charges, or even censored. Sparta had it right: put the
politicians on trial for their [alleged] crimes when their term is up.

Who are the real terrorist against our [US] democracy?

Jeff

> On 5 October 2011 15:10, Laurelai <laurelai () oneechan org> wrote:
> > On 10/4/2011 6:50 PM, adam wrote:
> >
> > "That actually depends on the situation, contempt can be criminal. And
> > frankly if you refuse a court order for information like that, the LE
> > officers will just seize it by gunpoint legally, then arrest you."
> > I'm curious as to what you think would cause contempt to be a criminal
> > offense, especially in that example.
> > Secondly, without the appropriate warrant - they couldn't legally take
> > anything. If they disregarded that truth and did so anyway, they'd open
> > themselves up to a pretty big lawsuit for violating that individual's civil
> > rights as well as due process. Not to mention, anything found would likely
> > end up being inadmissible because it was obtained illegally.
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 10:39 PM, Laurelai <laurelai () oneechan org> wrote:
> > > On 10/4/2011 6:35 PM, adam wrote:
> > >
> > > "(Option 3 - the guy heads downtown on a contempt of court charge -
> > > happens so
> > > rarely that it's basically a hypothetical)."
> > > You do realize that (at least in the US) - contempt is not a criminal
> > > offense, don't you?
> > >
> > > On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 8:05 PM, <Valdis.Kletnieks () vt edu> wrote:
> > > > On Tue, 04 Oct 2011 03:15:02 EDT, Jeffrey Walton said:
> > > > > On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 3:06 AM, Ferenc Kovacs <tyra3l () gmail com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > As I mentioned before it is hard to expect that a VPN provider will
> > > > > > risk his company for your $11.52/month, and maybe they would try it
> > > > > > for some lesser case, but what Lulsec did was grant, so I'm not
> > > > > > surprised that they bent.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Alleged"
> > > >
> > > > Yes. So?  In most jurisdictions, "alledged" and "probable cause" is
> > > > sufficient
> > > > to get a court to sign off on a subpoena and/or warrants.
> > > >
> > > > "Dear Judge:  On Aug 23, a hacker using the handle "JustFellOutOfTree"
> > > > did
> > > > violate Section N, Clause X.Y of the criminal code by hacking into
> > > > BigStore.com.  The connection was traced back to the provider VPNs-R-Us.
> > > >  We
> > > > would like a court order requesting VPNs-R-Us to provide any and all
> > > > information they may have regarding this user".
> > > >
> > > > That will usually do it (after bulked up to about 3 pages with legalese
> > > > and
> > > > dotting the t's and crossing the i's).
> > > >
> > > > The next morning, the manager at VPNs-R-Us gets to his office, and finds
> > > > two guys with guns and a signed piece of paper.  At which point one of
> > > > two
> > > > things will happen:
> > > >
> > > > 1) the guy rolls and gives up all the info.
> > > > 2) the guy calls his lawyer and makes sure that he gives up all the
> > > > required info,
> > > > and not one byte more.
> > > >
> > > > (Option 3 - the guy heads downtown on a contempt of court charge -
> > > > happens so
> > > > rarely that it's basically a hypothetical).
> > >
> > > That actually depends on the situation, contempt can be criminal. And
> > > frankly if you refuse a court order for information like that, the LE
> > > officers will just seize it by gunpoint legally, then arrest you.
> >
> >
> > http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm00754.htm
> >
> > And they can hold you indefinitely until you comply, or use your lack of
> > compliance as reasonable suspicion to get that warrant, oh and lets not
> > forget that they are declaring kids cyber terrorists and then the patriot
> > act takes effect in cases of suspicion of terrorism, when that happens you
> > don't have any rights anymore. Realistically we should stop calling them
> > rights since they aren't really rights, they are privileges that can be
> > revoked at government convenience.

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