Re: Re: Ethics, morality and the industry

[ArkanoiD <ark () eltex net>]

Yes, there is the problem. And i am damn serious. There were many times when
people contacted me for some security job because they know something about my
past. And i really don't like that, because i want to be recognized as 
security professional not as ex-hacker with "glorious" past - things i do for
last 10 years have nothing to do with it.

On Fri, Nov 05, 2004 at 10:45:56PM -0500, Bill Royds wrote:
>  One of the problems that giving such publicity to so many criminal "ex-hackers"
> is that it makes it much more difficult for honest security practitioners to do
> our job. I have never hacked into anything other than under the watchful eye of
> the system owner observing the possible flaws in his/her system while I
> explained what a buffer overflow is, why default configurations are unsafe etc.
> But the very fact that I had this ability made me suspect in some people's eyes.
> Their attitude becomes "You know how computer systems work so you must have
> learned that by criminal hacking like all those hackers in the news". This is
> despite a university degree in computer science and 30 years worth of experience
> in computers. The presence of convicted criminals in the "computer security"
> field means all members of that field are labelled "hackers" in the pejorative
> sense, making it much harder to do our job.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: firewall-wizards-admin () honor icsalabs com
> [mailto:firewall-wizards-admin () honor icsalabs com] On Behalf Of Christopher
> Hicks
> Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 2:21 PM
> To: Firewall Wizards Mailing List; Adam Shostack
> Cc: Stephen P. Berry; Paul Foster; Marcus J. Ranum; Paul D. Robertson
> Subject: Re: [fw-wiz] Re: Ethics, morality and the industry
>
> On Tue, 2 Nov 2004, Adam Shostack wrote:
> > On Mon, Nov 01, 2004 at 08:32:16PM -0800, Stephen P. Berry wrote:
> > | >My self-deception is that a refresher is always good, especially as I
> > | >find us practitioners sometimes fall into patterns of thinking.
> > |
> > | A quick grep through this thread indicates that Mitnick has been mentioned
> > | about two dozen times and Shimomura and Markoff have been mentioned exactly
> > | zero times.  Discuss.
> >
> > So how many times has Abagnale been mentioned?  Any correlation with
> > the pro- or anti- boycotters to correctly name the speaker in
> > question?
>
> Somebody should get on the stick and put up a survey.  I'd love to see 
> what the silent and/or moderated-out majority feel about this sort of 
> thing.
>
> This has been one of the more stimulating and thought provoking 
> discussions on any mailing list I've been on recently.  Thanks to 
> everybody for keeping it interesting and mostly above the belt.
>
> Kudos Paul (and or substitute moderators) for keeping it from getting out 
> of hand.
>
> -- 
> </chris>
>
> There are two ways of constructing a software design. One way is to make
> it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies. And the other way
> is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies.
>    -- C.A.R. Hoare
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