Re: Botnets, IRC servers and firewalls?

[Paul Robertson <proberts () patriot net>]

On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, Gadi Evron wrote:

> Let's make it a theological debate, is God responsible if one of his (?)
> creations murdered another?

I'm not touching that one!

> The point is not that users should pay for the crimes of the hacker who
> "0wned" them, but rather that ISP's should keep an eye on what their
> lines are used for, if it is illegal use.. they should stop it as far as
> law dictates, or would dictate.

When the law steps in, they do, but like any law enforcement action, it's
reactive and after the fact.

> Most ISP's didn't even hold logs until a law came out that said they must.

Sure they did- just not all the logs- and as a matter of fact many now
keep *less* than they did before the law was passed because there's less
risk for them if they do.

> The analogy to a rental agency (or the guys who made the road? please..)
> is wrong.. the police man stopping you for speeding, is the right one,
> in a limited way.

Even a rental agency won't be held liable for renting a car to someone who
runs people over.

> > > Users now can utilize the "Trojan horse defense" to get out of nearly
> > > everything, especially if the evidence in the case were not collected
> > > carefully (such as catch the guy in the act).
> > That's really an artifact of a particular case going wrong, not a
> > generalized defense (it's tried more and more often, but isn't often
> > successful.)
>
> I believe you are wrong, but I don't follow legal news often enough, nor
> do I understand much about the law to be able to say that for sure.

I follow it quite closely, and I work often with investigators and law
enforcement folks.

> Thanks for your input though. Please try and not go to personal levels? :)

I don't believe I went to a personal level, if you believe so, then I
apologize.

Paul
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul D. Robertson      "My statements in this message are personal opinions
proberts () patriot net      which may have no basis whatsoever in fact."
probertson () trusecure com Director of Risk Assessment TruSecure Corporation
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