Re: Professional Scrpt Kiddies vs Real Talent

[Wim Remes <wremes () gmail com>]

while I understand what triggered this post and/or e-mail, it is barely scratching the surface.  Infosec is so much 
more than finding vulnerabilities in products that you can hardly
limit a list of "security experts" to people doing vulnerability research.  It just ain't right.  For me there's two 
kind of people in infosec : People that are actually contributing to a
very open and interactive community (no, not by stepping in the limelight at cons and trying to make a name for 
themselves, this happens on different levels and at varying scales) 
and then there's the parasites who try to surf along on every wave but not giving back for what they've taken but 
rehashing ideas of others and not giving proper credit.  The latter
kind don't tend to hang around for very long though ...

H.D. Moore comes to mind.  He's probably one of the smartest infosec people around.  Do you blame him for creating 
Metasploit and enabling scriptkiddies to hack or do you credit him
for creating Metasploit which allows companies and overworked admins to actually perform some kind of pentesting and 
learn about security in the software they use ? I'll choose the latter.
Sure, 9 out of 10 won't use it as it was intended (a exploit development framework) but if 1 out of 10 does, that's 
enough of a result to continue.

I disagree with your position that any serious security services provider HAS TO DO security research (vulnerability 
research and exploit development). Fact is, it rarely educates people about risk.  At best
it makes them take a second look at their patch management process. 

In the end, everybody actively working to share information and knowledge on a daily basis to advance the infosec 
profession is a rockstar in my book. And yes, that includes people talking about DNSSEC on stage
while under the influence of copious amounts of bourbon.

Cheers,

W

On 05 Mar 2010, at 03:08, Adriel Desautels wrote:

> Posted on: http://snosoft.blogspot.com/2010/03/good-guys-in-security-world-are-no.html
>
> Comments, insults, etc. on the blog (or here) are more than welcome.
>
> --
>
> The Good Guys in the security world are no different from the Bad Guys; most of them are nothing more than glorified 
> Script Kiddies. The fact of the matter is that if you took all of the self-proclaimed hackers in the world and you 
> subjected them to a litmus test, very few would pass as actual hackers.
>
> This is true for both sides of the proverbial Black and White hat coin. In the Black Hat world, you have script-kids 
> who download programs that are written by other people then use those programs to “hack” into networks. The White 
> Hat’s do the exact same thing; only they buy the expensive tools instead of downloading them for free. Or maybe 
> they’re actually paying for the pretty GUI, who knows?
>
> What is pitiable is that in just about all cases these script kiddies have no idea what the programs actually do. 
> Sometimes that’s because they don’t bother to look at the code, but most of the time its because they just can’t 
> understand it. If you think about it that that is scary. Do you really want to work with a security company that 
> launches attacks against your network with tools that they do not fully understand? I sure wouldn’t.
>
> This is part of the reason why I feel that it is so important for any professional security services provider to 
> maintain an active research team. I’m not talking about doing market research and pretending that its security 
> research like so many security companies do. I’m talking about doing actual vulnerability research and exploit 
> development to help educate people about risks for the purposes of defense. After all, if a security company can’t 
> write an exploit then what business do they have launching exploits against your company?
>
> I am very proud to say that Everything Channel recently released the 2010 CRN Security Researchers list and that 
> Netragard’s Kevin Finisterre was on the list. Other people that were included in the list are people that I have the 
> utmost respect for. As far as I am concerned, these are the top security experts:
>
>    * Dino Dai Zovi
>    * Kevin Finisterre
>    * Landon Fuller
>    * Robert Graham
>    * Jeremiah Grossman
>    * Larry Highsmith
>    * Billy Hoffman
>    * Mikko Hypponen
>    * Dan Kaminsky
>    * Paul Kocher
>    * Nate Lawson
>    * David Litchfield
>    * Charles Miller
>    * Jeff Moss
>    * Jose Nazario
>    * Joanna Rutkowska
>
>
> In the end I suppose it all boils down to what the customer wants. Some customers want to know their risks; others 
> just want to put a check in the box. For those who want to know what their real risks are, you’ve come to the right 
> place.
>
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>
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This list is sponsored by: Information Assurance Certification Review Board

Prove to peers and potential employers without a doubt that you can actually do a proper penetration test. IACRB CPT 
and CEPT certs require a full practical examination in order to become certified.

http://www.iacertification.org
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