Re: Packetstream - how does this not violate just about every provider's ToS?

["Anne P. Mitchell, Esq." <amitchell () isipp com>]

> On Apr 25, 2019, at 1:41 PM, Tom Beecher <beecher () beecher cc> wrote:
>
> It seems like just another example of liability shifting/shielding. I'll defer to Actual Lawyers obviously, but the 
> way I see it, Packetstream doesn't have any contractual or business relationship with my ISP.  I do. If I sell them 
> my bandwidth, and my ISP decides to take action, they come after me, not Packetstream. I can plead all I want about 
> how I was just running "someone else's software" , but that isn't gonna hold up, since I am responsible for what is 
> running on my home network, knowingly or unknowingly. 

And *that* is *exactly* my concern.  Because those users...('you' in this example)...they have *no idea* it is causing 
them to violate their ToS/AUP with their provider.

And this in part, is my reason for bringing it up here in NANOG - because (at least some of) those big providers are 
here.  And those big providers are in the best position to stamp this out (if they think that it needs stamping out).

And:

> On Apr 25, 2019, at 1:21 PM, John Levine <johnl () iecc com> wrote:

> As to how do these guys think they'll get away with it, my guess is
> that they heard that "disruption" means ignoring laws and contracts
> and someone told them that is a good thing.

I would have appreciated a C&C warning on that. :-)

Anne

Anne P. Mitchell, 
Attorney at Law
GDPR, CCPA (CA) & CCDPA (CO) Compliance Consultant
Author: Section 6 of the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 (the Federal anti-spam law)
Legislative Consultant
CEO/President, Institute for Social Internet Public Policy
Board of Directors, Denver Internet Exchange
Board of Directors, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop
Legal Counsel: The CyberGreen Institute
Former Counsel: Mail Abuse Prevention System (MAPS)
California Bar Association
Cal. Bar Cyberspace Law Committee
Colorado Cyber Committee
Ret. Professor of Law, Lincoln Law School of San Jose
Ret. Chair, Asilomar Microcomputer Workshop