Re: ARIN whois

[Dean Anderson <dean () av8 com>]

Its not there to scare them.  It just notifies them what the fees and facts are.  They can't argue they didn't know 
what the costs were.  Nor can they argue the service was offered for free.  Nor can they claim the fees are punitive or 
otherwise specific to their particular use.  Anyone, regardless of race, creed, or commercial orientation who uses our 
services without authorization agrees to these fees. $90/hr is our regular rate for sysadmin work. We bill quite a bit 
each year at this rate.  The $1 and $10 fees are quite reasonable in comparision to prices of making a stock trade off 
the street without signing up for some deep discount service.  Making a stock trade and processing messages and bounces 
I think are very similar in computer resources.  UCC2 makes agreements between electronic agents binding.   And when 
the unauthorized relayers are tried criminally, they can't claim they didn't intend to commit a crime.  Intent, I'm 
told, makes a big difference in how things get treated.

Well, they can try to claim it was free, and they didn't know what cost was, or that more than a certain amount was a 
crime, but their arguments are made weaker.

I didn't get the reference to guns. I must be tired...  Do you mean that telling people the consequences of gun crimes 
is pointless?  Whether it actually prevents the crime or not, at least in some cases intentionally disregarding the law 
is supposed to be punished more severely than merely breaking the law.  So you should try to make sure if they do the 
crime, they get the most severe punishment.  If they think twice, and don't do the crime, you won't ever know, will you?

                --Dean

Around 03:18 PM 11/23/1999 -0500, rumor has it that Daniel Golding said:
> Dean,
>
> My apologies. Your scary message will surely stop spammers dead in their
> tracks. Please let me know if you intend to every own a gun store. I will
> have to make plans to leave the country...
>
> - Dan Golding
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, Dean Anderson wrote:
>
> > No. I don't think it is ethically questionable.  Each relay has started with NOQUEUE log entries. The relayer is 
> > telneting to port 25, and getting the following message:
> >
> >  telnet odie 25
> > Trying 198.3.136.141...
> > Connected to odie.av8.com.
> > Escape character is '^]'.
> > 220-odie.av8.com ESMTP Sendmail; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 11:53:11 -0500 (EST)
> > 220-Authorized Users Only
> > 220-Notice: Unauthorized use billed at $1 per message, $10 per bounce,
> > 220-$90/hr for cleanup.
> > 220 Unauthorized use over $5000 defined as criminal by 18 USC 1030(6).
> >
> > Around 11:38 PM 11/22/1999 -0500, rumor has it that Daniel Golding said:
> > > Dean,
> > >
> > > Have you considered that, while your stand may be legally correct, it is
> > > ethically questionable? By leaving your relays open, you invite abuse and
> > > facilitate the theft of other networks' resources. I can not imagine what
> > > legitimate purpose you might have for such a practice. Perhaps the most
> > > disturbing aspect of this is your steady beat on the drum of law and
> > > order, combined with your strange zeal to block out IP addresses from a
> > > large block of law abiding folks. 
> > >
> > > I can only wish you luck in your endevour to have Federal law enforcement
> > > officials deliver warrant on international spammers. Clearly, those folks
> > > don't have enough to do, and need the extra work.
> > >
> > > - Daniel Golding
> > >
> > > On Mon, 22 Nov 1999, Dean Anderson wrote:
> > >
> > > > These are coming from Mass, Cleveland, Ohio, and Virginia. 
> > > >
> > > > We use our relays for legitimate business purposes. They are not "accidentally left open".  We are not going to 
> > > > close them.  We are going to pursue abusers civilly and criminally.  The FBI assures me that it does not matter 
> > > > criminally that access comes from international sources.
> > > >
> > > > Much of the activity appears to be comming from alleged ANTI-SPAMMERs such as Chris Neill, and Alan Brown and Ron 
> > > > Guillemette who have been inciting attacks against us, posting to alt.2600 and advertising our service.  Inciting 
> > > > criminal acts is a criminal act too, I'm pretty sure. We make sure to mention them prominently.
> > > >
> > > >           --Dean
> > > >
> > > > Around 11:18 PM 11/21/1999 -0500, rumor has it that Kai Schlichting said:
> > > > > At 09:16 PM 11/21/99 -0500, Dean Anderson wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Can someone send me a list of *all* AOL netblocks?  ARIN's whois only gives back a handful.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I want to block _all_ AOL netblocks, but its tough to find out what they are.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks to a few malicious, radical antispammers (Chris Neill, Alan Brown, etc) we are getting hit with a large 
> > > > > > number of criminal mail relays. Mostly coming from AOL addresses. We have about a half dozen individual 
> > > > > > criminal complaints underway.
> > > > >
> > > > > Don't kid us, Dan. Close your fucking relays (not that any of them talk to
> > > > > my hosts anyhow). If this has to be drummed into your bonehead again: THEY
> > > > > WILL FIND YOUR RELAYS ON THEIR OWN, AND THEY WILL ABUSE THEM, NO MATTER
> > > > > HOW LOUD YOU SCREAM. THEY SIT IN CHINA, PAKISTAN AND KOREA, AND THERE IS
> > > > > NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT THEM SHORT OF CALLING THE WHITEHOUSE AND GETTING
> > > > > THESE PLACES INVADED. Alternatively, you could come to your senses and
> > > > > shut the literal front door of your house now that you've finally noticed
> > > > > the first unsavory characters passing by. A couple years after the rest
> > > > > of us, no doubt.
> > > > >
> > > > > And they won't need ORBS or any other service to locate you, either.
> > > > > Stop complaining. No more secrets (now that's from Scott Yelich's tagline).
> > > > >
> > > > > bye,Kai
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > kai () conti nu             "Just say No" to Spam            Kai Schlichting
> > > > > Palo Alto, New York, You name it             Sophisticated Technical Peon
> > > > > Kai's SpamShield <tm> is FREE!                 http://SpamShield.Conti.nu
> > > > > |                                                                       |
> > > > > LeasedLines-FrameRelay-IPLs-ISDN-PPP-Cisco-Consulting-VoiceFax-Data-Muxes
> > > > > WorldWideWebAnything-Intranets-NetAdmin-UnixAdmin-Security-ReallyHardMath
> > > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > > >            Plain Aviation, Inc                  dean () av8 com
> > > >            LAN/WAN/UNIX/NT/TCPIP          http://www.av8.com
> > > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >            Plain Aviation, Inc                  dean () av8 com
> >            LAN/WAN/UNIX/NT/TCPIP          http://www.av8.com
> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
           Plain Aviation, Inc                  dean () av8 com
           LAN/WAN/UNIX/NT/TCPIP          http://www.av8.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++