Re: ARIN whois

[Dean Anderson <dean () av8 com>]

I have never heard them say anything of the sort.

I do know that ORBS is uncommonly good at blocking relays.   Much, much better than RBL. One admin I talked to recently 
told me about 8 of 10 relayed spams were identified by ORBS.  Of course, is ORBS that good, or is ORBS actually the 
source of the relay attacks?  I think the latter.  I know our attacks increased (started actually) after ORBS people 
started inciting attacks.

If it weren't for ORBS there wouldn't be so many relay attacks.

I think it would be helpful to block all traffic to ORBS as an organization that promotes and incites criminal 
activity.  I think port scanning from ORBS into the US can be blocked immediately by any ISP as an unauthorized 
security scan, and a security attack.   We block them not only from our servers, but all of our customers as well.  Of 
course, they still advertise our servers to spammer and antispammer attackers.  All I can do is keep listing them in 
our complaints to the FBI.  But more complaints will help.

                --Dean

At 03:19 AM 11/25/1999 +0300, Alex P. Rudnev supposedly said:
> Btw.
>
> They, antispammers, have one usefull policy. Yes, you can keep OPEN RELAY, if
> you agree to restrict RELAYING FROM the wrong (existing in the ORBS or other)
> sources.
>
> It's just enougph for the business.
>
> Alex R.
>
>
>
> On Wed, 24 Nov 1999, Dean Anderson wrote:
>
> > Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 17:13:59 -0500
> > From: Dean Anderson <dean () av8 com>
> > To: J.D. Falk <jdfalk () cybernothing org>, nanog () merit edu
> > Subject: Re: ARIN whois
> >
> >
> > I'm surprised to see such poorly considered statements from JD. 
> >
> > Unless SMTP AUTH (just released in sendmail 3 weeks ago) works in every client, and is support in MS Exchange, then 
> > we (that is we as an operations community) don't have the technology to practically authenticate it yet.  I too can 
> > write an authenticated SSL client & server to transfer mail between two computers. But its not useful unless its 
> > widely deployed.  Statements to the contrary are just foolishness in an operational context such as a real business. 
> > We are running a _BUSINESS_, not a research lab, with one server and one specially developed client.
> >
> > We don't run relays out of laziness. We went out of our way to enable them. We go out of our way to monitor them for 
> > unauthorized use.  We would certainly prefer an authenticated mail system.  We have to live with what is currently 
> > deployed.
> >
> > What annoys me about the pressure from the junior antispammer league is they go from "gee, you know you can close 
> > those relays" 
> >
> > We respond "Yes, we know. We operate them on purpose for business reasons". At times, I've explained these business 
> > reasons in detail. The technical conclusion is then that we have to operate relays.
> >
> > They then jump to "Thats unacceptable. You MUST CLOSE THEM". 
> >
> > We say "No. Absolutely not."  
> >
> > They say "Well, in that case we're going to start committing crimes against your service, posting to alt.2600, 
> > inciting attacks, and wasting your time, bandwidth, and computer resources until you agree to close them."  
> >
> > We say, thats extortion.  We say that crimes against our service are crimes. We report them, and they will get 
> > eventually get punished, and we will work hard to get paid for the services rendered and the damages done by 
> > criminals.  We don't tolerate this sort of behavior.  Most companies don't.  
> >
> >              --Dean
> >
> >
> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >            Plain Aviation, Inc                  dean () av8 com
> >            LAN/WAN/UNIX/NT/TCPIP          http://www.av8.com
> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Aleksei Roudnev,
> (+1 415) 585-3489 /San Francisco CA/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
           Plain Aviation, Inc                  dean () av8 com
           LAN/WAN/UNIX/NT/TCPIP          http://www.av8.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++