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more on "War on Terra" saves few lives, expert says
From: David Farber <dave () farber net>
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 10:16:52 -0400
Begin forwarded message: From: john kemp <john.kemp () mac com> Date: September 11, 2005 9:54:07 AM EDT To: dave () farber net Subject: Re: [IP] more on "War on Terra" saves few lives, expert says Hello, I actually read this study a little differently. I thought of it as a hint to policy-makers that they should think a little more about what *are* reasonable justifications for a war. I do not believe that simply saying a "cause is just and sufficient to justify the shedding of blood" is enough to actually justify the shedding of that blood. In this case, it was said by this administration that fighting this war would save American lives in the long run. It turns out that by pursuing different activities, we could have saved more (American and other nations) lives (up to this point at least). That seems to take one justification for the war away, on a reasonably factual basis. If we applied such analyses to the other factors involved, we mind find out some things that would change our priorities as a nation. There are perhaps flaws in this particular study, and probably all others, but in general, I think it might be much better for us to be thinking this way in order to prevent further ill-conceived wars, rather than relying on subjective notions of what a "just" war is. Cheers, - JohnK David Farber wrote:
Begin forwarded message: From: h_bray () globe com Date: September 10, 2005 8:04:32 PM EDT To: dave () farber net Subject: Re: [IP] more on "War on Terra" saves few lives, expert saysI'm always bewildered when people put out silly "studies" like this one. What on earth does it prove? One could just as easily say that fightingthe American Civil War saved few lives, and so the South should have been allowed to secede. Or that Britain should have allowed Napoleon free rein in Europe. Both these decisions would have saved countless lives. Yet I don't think too many sane people would today say that the Civil War or the Napoleonic Wars were a complete waste of time. Which of course is the point. Whether a war is worth fighting depends on whether the causes are just and sufficient to justify the shedding ofblood. And studies like this one have precisely nothing to say on thatsubject. Hiawatha Bray David Farber <dave () farber net> To 09/10/2005 09:59 AM Ip Ip <ip () v2 listbox com> cc Please respond to dave () farber net Subject [IP] more on "War on Terra" saves few lives, expert says Begin forwarded message: From: ken kousky <kkousky () ip3inc com> Date: September 10, 2005 9:23:28 AM EDT To: dave () farber net, 'Ip Ip' <ip () v2 listbox com> Subject: RE: [IP] "War on Terra" saves few lives, expert says By far, the most deadly threat to American's today is a pandemic bird flu.Europe is seeing a real epidemic of bird flu as we focus on Katrina andagain we are completely unprepared. It is noteworthy that even the FBI's security and risk assessment reports are actively tracking the bird flu in Europe. The danger is a "cross- over" to a human variant - a real possibility. A risk to be managed. Until we get better at looking seriously at expected losses analytically andthen treating a reduction in risk as a real economic benefit, we're notlikely to see things change. Ken Kousky IP3 -----Original Message----- From: David Farber [mailto:dave () farber net] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:48 AM To: Ip Ip Subject: [IP] "War on Terra" saves few lives, expert says Begin forwarded message: From: Randall <rvh40 () insightbb com> Date: September 8, 2005 10:24:54 PM EDT To: Dave <dave () farber net> Subject: "War on Terra" saves few lives, expert says http://tinyurl.com/d5pl6 "War on terror" saves few lives: expert By Maggie Fox, Health and Science Correspondent 6 minutes ago The U.S. "war on terror" is saving fewer lives than just spending themoney on disease prevention and research, and has probably caused deathsby taking money away from basic services, an expert said on Thursday. The accusation is not new, but Dr. Erica Frank of the Department ofFamily and Preventive Medicine at Emory University School of Medicine in Atlanta said she has calculated the cost, in terms of lives, of the Bushadministration's terror policies. "The most recent effects of these diversions of funding have been seen in the unfolding tragedy of Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans and thesurrounding area," Frank wrote in a commentary published in the BritishMedical Journal. "Governments must protect their citizens, and anticipating these possible future threats is appropriate and could prove essential to Americans' health." Frank warned there is a threat that because of the U.S. government's policy, enormous numbers of Americans will die unnecessarily.On September 11, 2001, 3,400 people died because of the four intentional plane crashes in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania. But 5,200 otherAmericans died that same day from common diseases, according to Frank. To estimate how many Americans died of routine causes on September 11, Frank used national estimates of mortality from various causes. "Predictable tragedies happen every day. We know strategies to reduce deaths from tobacco, alcohol, poor diet, unintentional injuries, and other predictable causes. And we know that millions of people will dieunless we protect the population against these routine causes of death,"she wrote.Yet more money is spent to protect against deaths that are not likely tohappen. "For example, in September 2002, New York was awarded $1.3 million to reduce heart disease, the leading killer of New Yorkers, while $34 million was awarded for bioterrorism preparedness in the state," Frank added. Proponents have argued that bioterror preparedness would build up the public health structure in general. "If this is an improvement it sure is frightening to think what this might have looked like before," Frank said in a telephone interview. She cited numerous reports showing the federal government cut spendingto reinforce the levees built to protect New Orleans from the flood thathas devastated the city. "Since the point of investing in counterterror is to protect American lives, the question is a dollar better spent in Iraq or is it better spent here?" she asked. -- "We've got the hatemongers who literally hate this president, and thatis so wrong. . . . The people who hate George Bush hate him because he's a follower of Jesus Christ, unashamedly says so and applies his faith inhis day-to-day operations." -- Rev. Jerry Falwell, on C-SPAN's "Washington Journal" ------------------------------------- You are subscribed as kkousky () ip3inc com To manage your subscription, go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting- people/ ------------------------------------- You are subscribed as bray () globe com To manage your subscription, go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting- people/ ------------------------------------- You are subscribed as frumioj () mac com To manage your subscription, go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/
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- more on "War on Terra" saves few lives, expert says David Farber (Sep 10)
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