RE: DDoS protection

["Mikhail A. Utin" <mutin () commonwealthcare org>]

Some remarks.
1. Cloud Computing, yes, is just about datacenters serving hosting, i.e. application hosting service.
2. First appeared as Amazon AWS
3. CC is not actually IBM own concept as there is no concept in CC at all, see #1
4. NIST actually was far later than other parties in "cloudization" (I claim this term :) )
5. FedRAMP is not certification program at all. Plus, its security controls list is outdated - it is based on NIST 
SP800-53 R3, pretty outdated version. Current is R4. So, absolutely cannot be used for anything like certification.

Mikhail

-----Original Message-----
From: Comp Pycho [mailto:computer.pycho () gmail com] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2014 8:52 AM
To: Marios Stylianou
Cc: Mikhail A. Utin; <Dominick.Sardina () pseg com>; <security-basics () securityfocus com>
Subject: Re: DDoS protection

Cloud computing is an IBM concept that was blow up by NIST. NIST pushed this "Cloud" BS for external parties to make 
money. The cloud is nothing but a data center. The secure clouds are data centers which have gone through the FedRamp 
certification program for security compliance. 

Do what you know
-Dame Dash


> On Jun 25, 2014, at 6:56 AM, "Marios Stylianou" <styllosmarios () gmail com> wrote:
>
> You can try Incapsula services.
>
>
> Mindbets
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: listbounce () securityfocus com 
> [mailto:listbounce () securityfocus com] On Behalf Of Mikhail A. Utin
> Sent: Monday, June 23, 2014 7:02 PM
> To: Sardina, Dominick; security-basics () securityfocus com
> Subject: RE: DDoS protection
>
> Hello,
> Yes, all has been known for a while. I got two presentations discussing partially "cloud" matter at OWASP AppSec DC 
> 2012 and DeepSec 2012 and 2013.
> You can check both for presentations or ask me personally.
> Basically, all "clouds" are simply application hosting web sites. And technically a "cloud" is a datacenter. Whether 
> such app is a virtual network or Mom&Dad Pizza shop HTML site does not matter.
> So named "cloud computing concept" has nothing in common with computing, and not a concept at all. Models are useless 
> and in such case as "Community Cloud" and "Hybrid Cloud" is legal nonsense, simply because a service provider cannot 
> have legal binding relationship (aka a contract) with a community, which is not a legal entity.
> I tried to dig out where "cloud" came from. It is an invention of IBM 
> circle companies hosting site reselling IBM services. And in essence 
> is the replacement of Google and next IBM funded academic cluster 
> project "Academia Cluster Computing Initiative" or ACCI, see: Let a 
> Thousand servers bloom – Google official post, Posted by Christophe 
> Bisciglia, October 8, 2007 
> http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2007/10/let-thousand-servers-bloom.html
> IBM circle guys replaced "cluster" with "cloud" and renamed ACCI as "Academia Cloud Computing Initiative". Bingo! 
> Next they needed something looking like science in a form of "models".
> However, guys violated Google intellectual property rights on the original ACCI project name.
>
> Regards
>
> Mikhail
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: listbounce () securityfocus com 
> [mailto:listbounce () securityfocus com] On Behalf Of Sardina, Dominick
> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2014 2:49 PM
> To: security-basics () securityfocus com
> Subject: RE: DDoS protection
>
> Brett, I have to agree 100%.
>
>
> Regards,
> Dominick
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: listbounce () securityfocus com 
> [mailto:listbounce () securityfocus com] On Behalf Of Wagner, Brett
> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2014 12:57 PM
> To: Hartley, Christopher J.; Kellstr
> Cc: security-basics () securityfocus com
> Subject: RE: DDoS protection
>
> IMHO - I am not a fan of all the mumbo jumbo that goes along with the "Cloud" like it is a new invention. I worked at 
> GTE/BBN in 1999 and we were selling all the same crap back then. With that said and having worked at EMC for a while 
> you can have a "Cloud" on premises just means you have the hardware in one of your company locations. You can have 
> private, shared, public or a combo. 
>
> It is the same evolution as IT security circa 1970-80s (Rainbow Book Series days), then Information Security circa 
> 1990s, then Information Assurance circa late 90s early 2000s and now Cyber Security. With each name change 
> consultants and companies can charge more for the same ultimate goal with each name change.
>
> OK I will now get off my soapbox.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: listbounce () securityfocus com [mailto:listbounce () securityfocus com] On Behalf Of Hartley, Christopher J.
> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2014 10:48 AM
> To: Kellstr
> Cc: security-basics () securityfocus com
> Subject: Re: DDoS protection
>
> This is a little confusing; “cloud”, “on-premise” etc… weird.
>
> By “Cloud,” it seem like we mean “by provider” (makes sense).
>
> On-premise is the best way to detect an attack imo, since the victim network knows what’s good and what’s not (or 
> should….).
>
> So I think the best solution involves some kind of remote blackhole or ideally, perhaps flowspec.
>
> I don’t think it’s a problem that requires spending significant money.
>
> Chris
>
> > On Jun 19, 2014, at 12:50 PM, Kellstr <kellstr () gmail com> wrote:
> >
> > Disclaimer: I work for a company which offers a DDoS Protection Service.
> >
> > The advantage of a service "in the cloud" is that if an attack 
> > exceeds your circuit bandwidth the provider will be able to drop the 
> > malicious traffic. That cannot be done at your premise. Both Arbor 
> > and Radware offer strong appliances that can clean up smaller attacks 
> > at your premise and can send a signal to the provider if they support 
> > that service. You can block traffic using IPS's but keep in mind they 
> > are not designed for a volumetric attack and may be overwhelmed.
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 11:10 AM, Lance Lassetter 
> > <lancelassetter () gmail com> wrote:
> > > What about Suricata or Snort IDS in IPS mode?
> > >
> > > > On Jun 18, 2014 8:43 AM, "Mikhail A. Utin" <mutin () commonwealthcare org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > As you indicated " Although we're small, We're an organization playing with ($,¥,€,£) exchanges" you are on client 
> > > > side rather than on server. If that is right, you do not need to bother with DDoS protection, which is against 
> > > > server side.
> > > > Mikhail
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: listbounce () securityfocus com
> > > > [mailto:listbounce () securityfocus com] On Behalf Of 
> > > > kartik.netec () gmail com
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2014 12:49 AM
> > > > To: security-basics () securityfocus com
> > > > Subject: Re: Re: DDoS protection
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for your replies.
> > > >
> > > > Noted the points raised by Jacint and Kelly Keeton. I appreciate that.
> > > >
> > > > May I be kind to seek an opinion/ arguments suggesting if the In-house appliances are more "intelligent" thwarting 
> > > > the application level DOS/ DDoS attacks as compared to ISP provided DOS protection wherein it may even fail to 
> > > > detect them. or if there are other benefits owning an In-house product?
> > > >
> > > > As far as Cons are concerned, I feel that the appliance may add some latency which may create issues wherein a 
> > > > latency of milliseconds count.
> > > >
> > > > Although we're small, We're an organization playing with ($,¥,€,£) exchanges and heavily regulated by the 
> > > > Government.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > KT
> > > >
> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -
> > -- Securing Apache Web Server with thawte Digital Certificate In this 
> > guide we examine the importance of Apache-SSL and who needs an SSL certificate.  We look at how SSL works, how it 
> > benefits your company and how your customers can tell if a site is secure. You will find out how to test, purchase, 
> > install and use a thawte Digital Certificate on your Apache web server. Throughout, best practices for set-up are 
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>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -- Securing Apache Web Server with thawte Digital Certificate In this 
> guide we examine the importance of Apache-SSL and who needs an SSL certificate.  We look at how SSL works, how it 
> benefits your company and how your customers can tell if a site is secure. You will find out how to test, purchase, 
> install and use a thawte Digital Certificate on your Apache web server. Throughout, best practices for set-up are 
> highlighted to help you ensure efficient ongoing management of your encryption keys and digital certificates.
>
> http://www.dinclinx.com/Redirect.aspx?36;4175;25;1371;0;5;946;e13b6be4
> 42f727d1
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
>
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> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -- Securing Apache Web Server with thawte Digital Certificate In this 
> guide we examine the importance of Apache-SSL and who needs an SSL certificate.  We look at how SSL works, how it 
> benefits your company and how your customers can tell if a site is secure. You will find out how to test, purchase, 
> install and use a thawte Digital Certificate on your Apache web server. Throughout, best practices for set-up are 
> highlighted to help you ensure efficient ongoing management of your encryption keys and digital certificates.
>
> http://www.dinclinx.com/Redirect.aspx?36;4175;25;1371;0;5;946;e13b6be4
> 42f727d1
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --

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