Re: Civil Disobedience

[Blue Boar <BlueBoar () thievco com>]

Joel Rivers wrote:
> What civil liberties are we giving up?  Since when is hacking,
> virus-writing, and website defacing a civil liberty?  

We have the right to research whatever we like.  If code
is speach, then virus writing is a civil liberty.  Defacing
someone else's website without permission is a crime, and
should remain so, with a reasonable punishment attached.
As always, people should be punished after they do something
wrong.  Not because they have tools that might enable them
to do so.  Not because they know how.  Not because the
want to.  Only when they do, IMNSHO.

> I
> will agree that life imprisionment is a little harsh for defacing
> a web site but I think that harsher penalties hopefully will serve as a
> deterent for this type of behavior.

So, if speeding, jay walking, and giving an MP3 to a friend are
declared terrorist activities, retroactively, you won't mind
turning yourself in when the bill is passed?  Are you deterred
yet?  Mind if we slap a GPS on your rental car, and send the
feds around if you do 66 in a 65 zone?

> I'll say that the "increase in government surveillance authority" is the
> primary area of concern in regards to "losing civil liberties" in this bill.
> If anything, this is the area we should be focusing our concern, not on
> harsh penalties for those who are attempting illegal behavior.

There are several areas that could be argued there.  First off, 
is harsh punishment a deterrent?  For computer break-ins, there
seems to be little evidence to say that it is.  Second, are the 
punishments appropriate?  Does anyone really think a web site
defacement should get a worse punishment than a murder?  Third,
is anything being made illegal that isn't already?  I think you'll find
that it is.  No one should put up with something they should have a right 
to do being made illegal.  Fourth, is there a chilling effect that will
cause more harm than good?  I think you'll find there is.

Now, a note about this discussion from my position as moderator...

This is clearly a political discussion, and it is off-topic except
at the moderator's discrescion.  Some I allow, some I don't.  This
one is pretty bad, and deserves some discussion.  It's also timely.
I apologize in advance to those who simply want the technical discussion,
as your mailbox will be flooded for a day or two.  I wish I could
say that this is simply a US problem, but the US has an unreasonable amount
of influence on other countries in these areas.  

People may have noticed that vuln-dev has been unusually quite for
a week or two.  There are obviously many reasons this might happen, and
it does happen normally from time-to-time.  I have to wonder, though, 
if current legislation doesn't play a small part.

                                        BB