nanog mailing list archives
Re: Verizon Policy Statement on Net Neutrality
From: Mel Beckman <mel () beckman org>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2015 19:57:20 +0000
Kevin, It is NOT the ISP's responsibility to provide you with X Mbps if that was advertised as "UP TO x Mbps" (which is exactly how every broadband provider advertises its service -- check your contract). We're not talking about the Internet's capacity here. We're talking about the physical limits of an ISPs own uplink connection to the Internet. That costs much more than the income from the number of users it takes to saturate the uplink. Any discussion of Internet backbone limitations, while these limitations do in fact exist, has nothing to do with ISP oversubscription, which some are claiming is deceitful. It's not deceitful, it's essential. See my earlier "iron man" example to Bill. -mel On Feb 27, 2015, at 11:49 AM, "McElearney, Kevin" <Kevin_McElearney () cable comcast com> wrote:
[Sorry for top-posting] I actually think you are both right and partially wrong. It IS the ISPs responsibility to provide you with the broadband that was advertised and you paid for. This is also measured today by the FCC through Measuring Broadband America. http://data.fcc.gov/download/measuring-broadband-america/2014/2014-Fixed-Me asuring-Broadband-America-Report.pdf That said, your ISP is NOT “the Internet” and can’t guarantee “access the Internet sites of my choice at X megabits per second." While ISPs do take the phone call for all Internet problems (sometimes not very well), they certainly don’t control all levels of the QoE. ASPs may have server/site issues internally, CDNs may purposely throttle downloads (content owners contract commits), not all transit ISPs are created equal, TCP distance limitations, etc. What would be interesting is if all these rules/principals and transparency requirements were to be applied to all involved in the consumer QoE. - Kevin On 2/27/15, 1:34 PM, "Mel Beckman" <mel () beckman org> wrote:Bill, This is not feasible. ISPs work by oversubscription, so it's never possible for all (or even 10% of all) customers to simultaneously demand their full bandwidth. If ISPs had to reserve the full bandwidth sold to each customer in order to "do everything reasonably within your power to make sure I can access the Internet sites of my choice at X megabits per second", then broadband connections would cost thousands of dollars per month. Anyone who doesn't understand this fundamental fact of Internet distribution will be unable to engage in reasonable discussion about ISP practices. On Feb 27, 2015, at 9:56 AM, William Herrin <bill () herrin us<mailto:bill () herrin us>> wrote: Deceit is Bad Behavior. If you sell me an X megabit per second Internet access service, you should do everything reasonably within your power to make sure I can access the Internet sites of my choice at X megabits per second.
Current thread:
- Re: Verizon Policy Statement on Net Neutrality, (continued)
- Re: Verizon Policy Statement on Net Neutrality Tom Taylor (Feb 27)
- Re: utility capacity, was Verizon Policy Statement on Net Neutrality John Levine (Feb 27)
- Re: utility capacity, was Verizon Policy Statement on Net Neutrality Mel Beckman (Feb 27)
- Re: utility capacity, was Verizon Policy Statement on Net Neutrality Mike Hammett (Feb 28)
- Re: Verizon Policy Statement on Net Neutrality Mel Beckman (Feb 27)
- Re: Verizon Policy Statement on Net Neutrality William Herrin (Feb 27)
- Re: Verizon Policy Statement on Net Neutrality Mel Beckman (Feb 27)
- Re: Verizon Policy Statement on Net Neutrality William Herrin (Feb 27)
- Re: Verizon Policy Statement on Net Neutrality Mel Beckman (Feb 27)
- Re: Verizon Policy Statement on Net Neutrality McElearney, Kevin (Feb 27)
- Re: Verizon Policy Statement on Net Neutrality Mel Beckman (Feb 27)
- Re: Verizon Policy Statement on Net Neutrality Stephen Satchell (Feb 27)
- Re: Verizon Policy Statement on Net Neutrality Adam Rothschild (Feb 27)
- Re: Verizon Policy Statement on Net Neutrality Stephen Satchell (Feb 27)
- Re: Verizon Policy Statement on Net Neutrality Lamar Owen (Feb 28)
- Re: Verizon Policy Statement on Net Neutrality Valdis . Kletnieks (Feb 27)
- Re: Verizon Policy Statement on Net Neutrality David Bass (Feb 27)
- Re: Verizon Policy Statement on Net Neutrality William Herrin (Feb 27)
- Re: Verizon Policy Statement on Net Neutrality Scott Fisher (Feb 27)
- Re: Verizon Policy Statement on Net Neutrality Miles Fidelman (Feb 27)
- Re: Verizon Policy Statement on Net Neutrality Stephen R. Carter (Feb 27)