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Re: Was the ClimateGate Hacker Justified? Join the Debate!
From: Valdis.Kletnieks () vt edu
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2009 04:52:23 -0500
On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 10:56:03 EST, Wes Deviers said:
I think he was referring to the idea that previously rural senors are becoming urban without necessarily taking that into account when you look at the data. For instance, say you have 30 weather stations along the stretch of 81 between Blacksburg and Roanoke that were put in place in the 1950s and have been continually monitored. As Roanoke and the Blacksburg/Christiansburg Greater Metropolitan Area of Traffic Growth have expanded towards each other, the heat- island effect would have expanded with it. So assume 10 of the 30 sensors have shown continuous temperature increases since 1950. How much of that is due to global warming, and how much of that is due to urban expansion? A climatologist at VT would take that into account in their localized studies. Somebody at NOAA, viewing raw numbers in a text file, has no way to control for that. It's not that cities are hotter, is that the hot areas around cities expand with the cities, and national or international datasets cannot account for it. If just 5% of your weather data points from 1960 were rural but in 2009 are urban or suburban, how much does that skew the entire set?
Here's a nice thread about how they deal with this stuff. And apparently, the raw numbers *do* include a tag for this, so "somebody at NOAA" can do the applicable controls. People start posting actual stuff around reply #5: http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=359423 Of course, it's exactly these sort of corrections to the data that have the climate-change deniers jumping up and down yelling 'ZOMG! Cooked Data!', and why many of the scientists advocated not releasing the raw uncorrected data.
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- Re: Was the ClimateGate Hacker Justified? Join the Debate!, (continued)
- Re: Was the ClimateGate Hacker Justified? Join the Debate! Rob, grandpa of Ryan, Trevor, Devon & Hannah (Nov 26)
- Re: Was the ClimateGate Hacker Justified? Join the Debate! Valdis . Kletnieks (Nov 26)
- Re: Was the ClimateGate Hacker Justified? Join the Debate! Rich Kulawiec (Dec 02)
- Re: Was the ClimateGate Hacker Justified? Join the Debate! Valdis . Kletnieks (Dec 02)
- Re: Was the ClimateGate Hacker Justified? Join the Debate! Robert Graham (Dec 02)
- Re: Was the ClimateGate Hacker Justified? Join the Debate! Amrit Williams (Dec 02)
- Re: Was the ClimateGate Hacker Justified? Join the Debate! Valdis . Kletnieks (Dec 02)
- Re: Was the ClimateGate Hacker Justified? Join the Debate! Martin Tomasek (Dec 03)
- Re: Was the ClimateGate Hacker Justified? Join the Debate! Valdis . Kletnieks (Dec 03)
- Re: Was the ClimateGate Hacker Justified? Join the Debate! Wes Deviers (Dec 03)
- Re: Was the ClimateGate Hacker Justified? Join the Debate! Valdis . Kletnieks (Dec 05)
- Re: Was the ClimateGate Hacker Justified? Join the Debate! Martin Tomasek (Dec 05)
- Re: Was the ClimateGate Hacker Justified? Join the Debate! Martin Tomasek (Dec 03)
- PayPal Admits to Phishing!!! Randy Abrams (Dec 03)