Full Disclosure mailing list archives
Re: hushmail.com, is this true? (Libraries, The Patriot Act, Forcoing Issues Etc.) (RAL for some)
From: Steve Kudlak <stevex11 () sbcglobal net>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 03:31:22 -0800
Pseudo Nym wrote:
Libraries are doing this in response to the Patriot Act. It used to be they kept pretty extensive records in some places and Librarian L could tell you if anyone in your small county shared your reading interests. I think this has mostly died out thanks to the Patriot Act, which is exactly what the person meant when someone said "The US Gestapo legal tactics" of saying : "International terrorists use your mail system, please send us your logfiles. Oh you're in another country, well here is an obscure treaty your country signed that say you must turn them over..." Most likely they would play the freindly cooperation thing first. After that they would say: "Well your country has signed a number of treaties and they are at the Federal Level and courts have ruled such and such and if you find yourself in trouble at that level you will live to regret it..."This is from an earlier e-mail I drafted but did not send: "ah hah, I made another mistake. I meant Etaoin instead of Atte in my last e-mail. Thank you Etaoin, I'm VERY glad to here that you know people who do or who have worked there. That's very comforting. Anyone else got anything?" and again, Valdis is correct. Hushmail isn't claiming they won't hand over their logs, they're claiming they aren't *making* them, rendering their logs useless if seized through a court order. That is a fairly substantial claim for a free e-mail service which is why I'm investigating it. --- Valdis.Kletnieks () vt edu wrote:On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 14:51:07 MST, james edwards said:No business can ignore a judges orders to producewhatever requiredinformation. The business can contest the request but if it isproven out the informationmust be produced.So tell me - what do you do when you get served a subpoena requesting all your records regarding the development of a specified drug by Pfeizer? Oh. You never *had* those records, because you don't keep them? I see.... ;) They can't force you to produce information you can prove you don't have...__________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
So in general if I needed to keep something quiet I would depend on technological countermeasures that I controlled. Oddly, when I have offered to people close to me email service that would give them a modicum of protection, they are unwilling to give up yahoomail which they learned and when ever push comes to even the mildest shove they will just cooperate fully and turn over everything. The question I would like is what level of "paranoia" should we be at? Right now most people still believe enough in the US in the Bill or Rights in the US and other protections elsewhere that no one is getting really bent out of shape and invokes any special protections to avoid danger? The question is should they do so? And if so is there a "Plug and Play" PGP or something equaslly as good. Right now people seem to want ease of use a lot and ignore much of the protection already available to them.
Have Fun, Sends Steve _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
Current thread:
- Re: hushmail.com, is this true?, (continued)
- Re: hushmail.com, is this true? Atte Peltomaki (Jan 25)
- Re: hushmail.com, is this true? Darren Bounds (Jan 26)
- Re: hushmail.com, is this true? Etaoin Shrdlu (Jan 25)
- Re: hushmail.com, is this true? Bart . Lansing (Jan 25)
- Re: hushmail.com, is this true? Valdis . Kletnieks (Jan 25)
- Re: hushmail.com, is this true? Pseudo Nym (Jan 25)
- Re: hushmail.com, is this true? james edwards (Jan 25)
- Re: hushmail.com, is this true? Valdis . Kletnieks (Jan 25)
- Re: hushmail.com, is this true? Gregh (Jan 25)
- Re: hushmail.com, is this true? Pseudo Nym (Jan 25)
- Re: hushmail.com, is this true? (Libraries, The Patriot Act, Forcoing Issues Etc.) (RAL for some) Steve Kudlak (Jan 26)
- Re: hushmail.com, is this true? (Libraries, The Patriot Act, Forcoing Issues Etc.) (RAL for some) Valdis . Kletnieks (Jan 26)
- Re: hushmail.com, is this true? james edwards (Jan 25)
- Re: hushmail.com, is this true? Ron (Jan 25)
- Re: hushmail.com, is this true? james edwards (Jan 25)
- Email Privacy (was hushmail.com, is this true?) J.A. Terranson (Jan 25)
- Re: Email Privacy (was hushmail.com, is this true?) Etaoin Shrdlu (Jan 25)
- Re: Re: hushmail.com, is this true? Pseudo Nym (Jan 26)