Full Disclosure mailing list archives
RE: Anti-MS drivel
From: "James Patterson Wicks" <pwicks () oxygen com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 13:33:02 -0500
Kind of sad that you have to resort to insults, but I guess that's just how some people are used to operating. " Apple employs extremely talented people. Or do you think they just grabbed Mach and FreeBSD and threw out an OS without testing and engineering?" As far as Apple goes, I really must have hit on a nerve of OS X lovers out there. I guess they skimmed over the "The OS is more stable than Microsoft" statement. I did not question their commitment to the OS, but their attitude toward their general public and the price of their products. Apple needs to replace their army of design engineers (not software and hardware engineers) with MBA's. Spend less time trying to make their products prettier and concentrate on increasing market share. When Steve Jobs was asked about the screwed up pricing on the new iPod Mini, he said that they are marketed to "existing iPod owners so that they can have one iPod for normal use and one for the gym . . ." And he said it with a straight face Like I said, screwed up attitude. "Last time I checked Java was not an operating system." http://sourceforge.net/projects/jos Here is the ZDNet article on the rover using Java: http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-5142220.html It's OK, I won't call you any names for not knowing. "When a new worm comes out that infects your whole Windows network because some guy brought his laptop and bypassed your firewall, do you sue Microsoft?" "If someone brings in a laptop and infects your network, you cannot sure Microsoft." Poor security policy enforcement caused that problem. Unless there is a zero-day exploit that Microsoft knew about and failed to warn customers about or failed to try to resolve, no court would find them guilty (especially with Microsoft lawyers). The IE exploit that has been infecting home users for the past few months has not businesses as hard because most large businesses spend then money on decent administrators who enforce security policy, patch regularly and read lists like this to protect their enterprise. -----Original Message----- From: full-disclosure-admin () lists netsys com [mailto:full-disclosure-admin () lists netsys com] On Behalf Of Miguel Mendez Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 9:59 AM To: full-disclosure () lists netsys com Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] Anti-MS drivel James Patterson Wicks wrote:
Microsoft has competition. Apple, Sun, Red Hat . . .
It sure does, but not on the x86 desktop.
Problem is Apple is full of idiots who feature style over substance. The system has to look better than it performs. They want people to
pay
a premium to make it seem that their products are for the elite only. The OS is more stable than Microsoft, but their elitist attitude will always keep them at 5% market share.
James, I don't know how old you are, or if you're just dim. Apple employs extremely talented people. Or do you think they just grabbed Mach and FreeBSD and threw out an OS without testing and engineering? They have people like Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith working hard on the BSD side of things. They have extremely good people working on the UI side of things. Add to that the NeXT heritage and what you get is the finest desktop OS ever made, combined with the robustnes typically found in *ix systems. And cut the expensive hardware crap, that was true 10 years ago, not now. You can get a very nice Mac for a decent price these days. The fact is, OS X has had far less security problems than any desktop OS Microsoft has ever made.
Sun's Java should be the market leader, but they don't have the cash
to
take on the 800 pound gorilla that is Microsoft. Java is on running Spirit, the rover that is on Mars right now. Imagine if Spirit had a
Again, you don't know what you're talking about. Java has its place in the server, that's where it shines. Nobody uses java for desktop apps except when you want easy multi-platform support, and even then, there are other alternatives. Java is very strong in the middleware market, where it shows all its true potential.
Sorry, but the guy from the Help Desk can't just stop by and reboot it this time. Even NASA is not crazy enough to trust a billion dollar project to a Microsoft OS.
Last time I checked Java was not an operating system.
Linux is just not ready for prime time. By prime time I mean on the homes of the American public. Regular home consumers don't want to
have
to learn a new language to use e-mail or play games. They want to be able to update a security hole without having to compile something. Linux needs an interface like OS X and a software library to back it
for
"normal" people to be interested.
Perhaps Microsoft's contracts with the major vendors also have something to do with this. OTOH, I do think there are Joe ComputerUser-ready linux distros. For people who use their computer to check e-mail, write some letters and browse the web, that is. I don't think a Mandrake or Knoppix system is that hard to learn. I'll give you the games thing, though. It's a catch-22 situation. The Linux market is too small, so little games are available, but few gamers will switch too linux if no games are available.
Business on the other hand is moving slowly to Linux. Why slowly?
Who
do you sue when your business is hacked by someone who planted a backdoor in the Linux kernel? Won't happen you say? Let's see,
almost
happened once already . . .
You are so wrong. Businesses tend to be very conservative. If it works, don't touch it. That's why there are still IBM mainframes, that's why there are thousands of COBOL apps still running. Get a support contract with RedHat or SuSe. When a new worm comes out that infects your whole Windows network because some guy brought his laptop and bypassed your firewall, do you sue Microsoft?
Linux kernel suffers Trojan horse hack - http://www.silicon.com/software/os/0,39024651,39116796,00.htm
Guess what, no operating system is perfectly bugfree. Cheers, -- Miguel Mendez <flynn () energyhq es eu org> http://www.energyhq.es.eu.org PGP Key: 0xDC8514F1 _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html This e-mail is the property of Oxygen Media, LLC. It is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, or otherwise protected from disclosure. Distribution or copying of this e-mail or the information contained herein by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us by sending an e-mail to postmaster () oxygen com and destroy all electronic and paper copies of this e-mail. _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
Current thread:
- Re: Old school applications on the Internet (was Anti-MS drivel), (continued)
- Re: Old school applications on the Internet (was Anti-MS drivel) Nico Golde (Jan 22)
- Re: Anti-MS drivel yossarian (Jan 20)
- Re: Anti-MS drivel Michael Gale (Jan 17)
- Re: Anti-MS drivel Lee (Jan 18)
- Re: Anti-MS drivel Miguel Mendez (Jan 18)
- RE: [inbox] RE: Anti-MS drivel Curt Purdy (Jan 18)
- Re: Anti-MS drivel Valdis . Kletnieks (Jan 18)
- Re: Anti-MS drivel brenda (Jan 18)
- Re: Anti-MS drivel Piotr |-|4w4+ Kostrzewa (Jan 18)
- Re: Anti-MS drivel Piotr |-|4w4+ Kostrzewa (Jan 18)
- RE: Anti-MS drivel James Patterson Wicks (Jan 19)
- RE: Anti-MS drivel Schmehl, Paul L (Jan 20)
- RE: Anti-MS drivel Tobias Weisserth (Jan 20)
- Re: Anti-MS drivel Mary Landesman (Jan 20)
- Re: Anti-MS drivel Tobias Weisserth (Jan 20)
- Re: Anti-MS drivel Mary Landesman (Jan 20)
- Re: Anti-MS drivel Mary Landesman (Jan 20)
- RE: Anti-MS drivel David Bartholomew (Jan 20)
- Message not available
- Re: Anti-MS drivel Tobias Weisserth (Jan 20)
- Re: Anti-MS drivel Ron DuFresne (Jan 20)
- Re: Anti-MS drivel Tobias Weisserth (Jan 21)
- RE: Anti-MS drivel Tobias Weisserth (Jan 20)