RE: Re: chat logs

["David" <david () clicksee net>]

I must disagree with this line from Ms. Fischer- 'if they are doing
nothing wrong, then there is nothing to hide and have "private".'

How would you respond if your boss wanted to read your email and monitor
the web sites you went to and read your IM's under the same philosophy?

I love my wife and she loves me and we trust each other greatly and yet
she still doesn't want to poop if I'm in the bathroom even though there
is nothing 'wrong' going on. :) i.e. even children deserve some privacy.

Choosing their friends and having relationships with those friends is
part of growing up and learning to socialize and keeping total control
over that will stagnate that process. Balance is the key word here I
think and monitoring communications considered private is going to far
just as having a child carry an electronic listening device would be
going too far. 

I agree with Mihai's sentiment. How about the parents explain to the
kids what the security situation is and go through the emails and chat
logs together? Maybe even show the kids how to run searches using
scripts and teach them some computer stuff?

An interesting dilemma as to how far to go with things. I think it's a
bit different with K-12 kids though. With a kindergartener, yeah, the
parents should probably just go ahead and search through their files
unasked. With a 12 year old that could really touch off a fire-storm.
"Dad, how could you just totally violate my privacy like that?" 


-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Alford [mailto:stephena () sbspros net] 
Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 3:05 AM
To: 'Melissa Fischer'; security-basics () securityfocus com
Subject: RE: Re: chat logs

Melissa, Mihai, et al,
I can see both sides, as a father of 3 teens and a sec pro.  We all went
thru our trials and tribulations as teens and I loved and related well
with
my parents.  However, I certainly had moments I preferred keeping
between me
and my peers.  I know there were experiences, real & virtual, that I
didn't
consider WRONG but still kept from my parents.  Looking back on this
with
perspective, I can understand my kids need for privacy, and I also
understand my parental need to ensure they are protected from
inadvertently
choosing BAD options.  It is one of our greatest challenges to balance
these
needs appropriately.

Thus, like any seasoned sec pro, make sure you assess the whole
situation
before applying your solution (and you DON'T NEED TO BE A PARENT TO
FOLLOW
THIS).

My 2c worth.

Stephen Alford, MCT, MCSE+Security, CCNA, CCDA, ASE
Director, Partner Practices & Solutions, SBS Pros
Email: stephena () sbspros net 


-----Original Message-----
From: Melissa Fischer [mailto:Melissa.Fischer () NorthMemorial com] 
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 8:50 AM
To: security-basics () securityfocus com
Subject: Fwd: Re: chat logs

FYI

Melissa Fischer
Database Administrator
Data  and System Engineering
North Memorial Health Care
763/520-1533
melissa.fischer () northmemorial com

> > > Melissa Fischer 5/13/2005 10:49:39 AM >>>
I understand your concern, apparently you must not be a parent.
I have raised 3 sons, 24, 20 and now an 8 year old.  Teenagers talk to
EACH
OTHER, not to their parents.
Our parents HAVE personally talked to their children, looking at files
on
their computers is not taking away their privacy, if they are doing
nothing
wrong, then there is nothing to hide and have "private".



Melissa Fischer
Database Administrator
Data  and System Engineering
North Memorial Health Care
763/520-1533
melissa.fischer () northmemorial com 

> > > Mihai Amarandei <mihai () xmcopartners com> 5/13/2005 9:45:28 AM >>>
I'm glad too se everyone helping out to find the logs and giving advice 
on how to search those teen-agers web history.
Just me(and this has nothing to do with security), but wouldn't it be 
better that each parent asked directly its children about such incidents

instead of searching and digining through their logs and web history?
I for one wouldn't like it that my parents knew all my browsing and 
chatting habbits, and I think this is the case for most of today's 
persons. Teens are as ,uch entitled to their privacy "apriori" as anyone

else in my opinion.
I know all I've said has not much to do with security (actually it has 
to do with privacy), but neither is searching for logs.
I'm not trying to undermine the importance of the threat and the gravity

of the situation, I just don't think such an intrusion of privacy would 
be a good answer.


Mihai
Blog: http://secinternship.blogspot.com 

Melissa Fischer wrote:

> Our community, Waconia, Minnesota has recently been the victims of
> threats against our children and schools.
> http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5399090.html 
>
> The Emergency Response Task Force assigned to our case asked parents to
> go home and check their kids computers for any chats or emails with
> information.
>
> We are trying to find a document explaining where and what to look at
> to find any information.  We would like to post this on our school main
> page www.waconia.k12.mn.us for a resource for parents to use on how to
> find any information.  Can you tell me where to find this information?
>
> Thank you in advance,
>
>
>
> Melissa Fischer
> Database Administrator
> Data  and System Engineering
> North Memorial Health Care
> 763/520-1533
> melissa.fischer () northmemorial com 
>
>  


-- 
Mihai Amarandei-Stavila - Xmco Partners
Consultant Sécurité / Test d'intrusion

tel  : 33 1 47 34 68 61
web  : http://www.xmcopartners.com 
Villa Gabrielle 75015 PARIS