Illegal but Ethical

[don.thomas.cissp at gmail.com (Don Thomas)]

You can also use an event in recent news... The Acorn Pimp and Prostitute
video tapings.  In one of the states it was illegal for them to record the
event without the other persons knowledge... but uncovering the corruption
can be considered, and probably is considered ethical and IMO necessary.

The best of luck with you professor.

-dt



On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 5:20 PM, Jody & Jennifer McCluggage <
j2mccluggage at adelphia.net> wrote:

>  I partially see your point. True, ethics and law are two different fields
> that don?t necessarily fully overlap.  Ethics are largely thought to be
> universal ?although not all would agree - (there are many different camps on
> this but most usually boil down to two: some form of utilitarianism or
> religion).  Laws differ by jurisdiction.  There is no doubt that many
> regimes over history have enacted some rather atrocious laws.
>
>
>
> I do see some of your instructor?s point though.  In the US, probably 99%
> of the time, breaking the law is also unethical.  The examples you give are
> kind of rare and extreme (usually a good rule of thumb is that if you have
> to bring up Nazi Germany to support your position, it may be a little
> extreme!).  Unfortunately when many make that argument they are not making
> it for high minded ideals but to justify breaking the law.  I know that is
> not the point you are making but it can be fairly slippery slope to start
> down.
>
>
>
> On occasion we come across some of these justifications in our line of
> business. For example:  yes I broke into XYZ system but ?.. I just wanted to
> show them how insecure their system was ??.. if they did not want me in
> there they should have secured it ???. I was just curious and looking
> around.  I did not take or break anything ... etc, etc, etc.  Does XYZ need
> to secure their system?  Absolutely.  Is it illegal to break into their
> system without their explicit permission? Absolutely.
>
>
>
> If something can be even construed as illegal it is probably best to stay
> away from it or at least get some legal advice about it. This is
> particularly true in the area of computer and cyber laws where the law can
> be a little fuzzy and broadly interpreted.
>
>
>
> It reminds me of the story of the man who interviewed 4 different men for
> the job of driving his carriage.  He asked each of them how close they could
> get to the edge of the cliff without falling off.  The first 3 told him how
> close they could get without falling off.  The 4th man told him ?I am not
> going anywhere near the edge of that cliff?.  He hired the 4th man.
>
>
>
> Well that is my two cents for whatever it worth.
>
>
>
> Jody
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* pauldotcom-bounces at mail.pauldotcom.com [mailto:
> pauldotcom-bounces at mail.pauldotcom.com] *On Behalf Of *Adrian Crenshaw
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 04, 2009 1:23 PM
> *To:* PaulDotCom Security Weekly Mailing List
> *Subject:* [Pauldotcom] Illegal but Ethical
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>     I was listening to the Thomas Wilhelm interview, and the ethics part
> got my attention. I recently got in academic trouble at school because I
> said something can be illegal but ethical, and in the teacher's mind I would
> not let it go. I think I brought it up three times, in context, and it took
> about 3 min of class time. I used the classic "Are there Jews in your
> basement", and lying about it if there are,  asked in Nazi Germany as and
> example where something is illegal, but ethical. I was slamed later because
> this is "extreme" and "not business related" and in the complaint I was
> slammed as "anti-law" and "anti-ethics". Is seems in the tech field, there
> are many examples of items that a business related, illegal but ethical. A
> few examples:
>
> Cleanflicks buying DVDs, making edited copies to rent, and keeping the
> originals in storage (DMCA violation)
>  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CleanFlicks
>
> Posting prpitary data that shows voting machines to be vulnerable (DMCA
> again)
> http://www.eff.org/cases/online-policy-group-v-diebold
>
> I might be able to tie this in as well
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust
>
> Any other examples you can think of with items that are business related,
> illegal but ethical? Got a good reverse engenering example?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>
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-- 
Best regards,
-dt
Don Thomas
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