Re: NTP Sync Issue Across Tata (Europe)

[Mike Hammett <nanog () ics-il net>]

Frontier COs is the easiest example.No antennas and no time service. Yes, they provide BITS, but BITS isn't time. 


I was also speaking specifically about installing GPS antennas in viable places, not using a facility-provided GPS or 
NTP service. 




----- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Mel Beckman" <mel () beckman org> 
To: "Mike Hammett" <nanog () ics-il net> 
Cc: nanog () nanog org, "Mark Tinka" <mark@tinka.africa> 
Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2023 10:36:46 AM 
Subject: Re: NTP Sync Issue Across Tata (Europe) 

I’d be interested in an example of a Colo that does NOT provide GPS-based NTP even if they don’t let tenants install 
their own. I’ve never, ever seen one. 


-mel 



On Aug 8, 2023, at 8:20 AM, Mike Hammett <nanog () ics-il net> wrote: 




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My facility experience ranges from prohibited to infeasible. I must not be in the right facilities. 




Yes, many radio platforms have GPS for timing. Some expose it for external time and timing purposes, some do not. 
Naturally, they do have a pretty good view of the sky. 




----- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Mel Beckman" <mel () beckman org> 
To: "Mike Hammett" <nanog () ics-il net> 
Cc: nanog () nanog org, "Mark Tinka" <mark@tinka.africa> 
Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2023 10:05:55 AM 
Subject: Re: NTP Sync Issue Across Tata (Europe) 

It works fine, and is an industry standard. you have to mount the GPS antenna near a window with sky visibility, or on 
the roof. Many point-to-point microwave radios have GPS built in to obtain accurate timing for transmission 
multiplexing. 


-mel 


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On Aug 8, 2023, at 7:16 AM, Mike Hammett <nanog () ics-il net> wrote: 


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"We use these exclusively in data centers" 


How well does GPS work inside the datacenter? 




----- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Mel Beckman" <mel () beckman org> 
To: "Mark Tinka" <mark@tinka.africa> 
Cc: nanog () nanog org 
Sent: Saturday, August 5, 2023 2:26:37 PM 
Subject: Re: NTP Sync Issue Across Tata (Europe) 

Mark, 

You might consider setting up your own GPS-based NTP network. Commercial Ethernet GPS-sourced NTP servers, such as the 
Time Machines, TM1000A, are as little as $400. Or you can roll your own using a Raspberry Pi or similar nano computer 
with a GPS module and antenna. We use these exclusively in data centers now rather than depending on Internet NTP 
servers, primarily for security, because financial transactions in e-commerce can be sensitive to false time 
information. There are also a variety of NTP-based Internet attacks, so if you can block NTP at your border you’ve 
eliminated another attack surface. 

-mel via cell 

> On Aug 5, 2023, at 11:22 AM, Mark Tinka <mark@tinka.africa> wrote: 
>
>
>
> > On 8/5/23 20:17, Chris Adams wrote: 
> >
> > It's the NTP pool people you need to talk to - the .freebsd. bit is just 
> > a vendored entry into the pool (more for load tracking and management). 
>
> Yes, Andreas clarified in unicast. Will do. Thanks. 
>
> Mark. 


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