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Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup?

From: Rafael Possamai <rafael () gav ufsc br>
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2015 08:49:40 -0500
That's interesting, I will take a look. Thanks!

On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 7:40 AM, Marco Teixeira <admin () marcoteixeira com>
wrote:


Rafael,
At some scales, the WiFi standard alone will not cut it... Research on
MERUNETWORKS virtual cell tecnology. I have done a trial with them. All the
others are far behind on density. Check their case studies.
Em 20/06/2015 13:02, "Rafael Possamai" <rafael () gav ufsc br> escreveu:


I don't think there's an actual standard for density, at least I am not
aware of one. Independent of the vendor you use, this guide should be
valid
at 80% of implementations:


http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/wireless/aironet-1250-series/design_guide_c07-693245.html

On Meraki's website there's a case study of an entertainment venue that
has
about 2,000 users per night, so I am assuming 1,000 which is your cause
should be doable.

On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 5:41 AM, Sina Owolabi <notify.sina () gmail com>
wrote:


Thanks everybody. I've been corrected on density... I've been informed

that

it's to be a minimum of 1000 users per building.
That's 8,000 users. (8 buildings, not counting walkways and courtyards,
admin, etc.)
Does this qualify as high-density?

On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 5:33 AM Ray Soucy <rps () maine edu> wrote:


Well, I could certainly be wrong, but it's news to me if UBNT started
supporting DFS in the US.

Your first screenshot is listing the UAP for 5240 which is channel 48,
U-NII-1.  The second show 5825 which is the upper limit of U-NNI-3.  I
don't see any U-NII-2 in what you posted.

This forum post may be a bit out of date, but I haven't seen any
announcement or information on the forums to indicate the situation

has

changed, and I'm pretty good at searching:

https://community.ubnt.com/t5/UniFi-Wireless/DFS/m-p/700461#M54771

From this thread it looks like the ability to configure DFS channels

in

the

US was a UI bug and only showing for ZH anyway.  IIRC they actually

got

in

a bit of trouble with the FCC over not restricting the use of these
channels enough.

Regardless of whether or not the FCC has cleared UBNT indoor products

for

U-NII-2 and U-NII-2-extended (and I haven't seen evidence of that

yet),

until you can configure APs to use those channels in the controller

without

violating FCC regulations I don't consider them usable.

The UAP-AC doesn't seem to support DFS channels at all even without

FCC

restrictions, which kind of kills the point of AC, only 4 x 40 MHz or

2 x

80 MHz channels doesn't cut it when we're talking about density.

Note we're talking about indoor wireless and there ARE some UBNT

products

for outdoor WISP use that do support DFS and have been cleared by the

FCC,

but we would only be looking at the UAP-PRO or UAP-AC in this case so

maybe

that's the point of confusion here.




On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 11:36 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <

faisal () snappytelecom net>

wrote:


FCC Cert claims different.

:)

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email:

Support () Snappytelecom net


------------------------------

*From: *"Josh Luthman" <josh () imaginenetworksllc com>
*To: *"Faisal Imtiaz" <faisal () snappytelecom net>
*Cc: *"NANOG list" <nanog () nanog org>, "Ray Soucy" <rps () maine edu>
*Sent: *Friday, June 19, 2015 9:16:37 PM

*Subject: *Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless

network

setup?

Uhm he's not wrong...

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Jun 19, 2015 9:13 PM, "Faisal Imtiaz" <faisal () snappytelecom net>

wrote:



The thing you need to watch out for with Ubiquiti is that they

don't

support DFS, so the entire U-NII-2 channel space is off limits for

5

GHz.


Huh ????

Please verify your facts before making blanket statements which are

not

accurate ...



Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom


----- Original Message -----

From: "Ray Soucy" <rps () maine edu>
To: "Sina Owolabi" <notify.sina () gmail com>
Cc: "nanog () nanog org list" <nanog () nanog org>
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 7:07:01 PM
Subject: Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless

network

setup?


I know you don't want to hear this answer because of cost but

I've

had

good

luck with Cisco for very high density (about 1,000 clients in a

packed

auditorium actively using the network as they follow along with

the

presenter).

The thing you need to watch out for with Ubiquiti is that they

don't

support DFS, so the entire U-NII-2 channel space is off limits

for 5

GHz.

That's pretty significant because you're limited to 9 x 20 MHz

channels

or

4 x 40 MHz channels.  Keeping the power level down and creating

small

cells

is essential for high density, so with less channels your hands

are

really

tied in that case.  Also, avoid the Zero Handoff marketing

nonsense

they

advertise; I'm sure it can work great for a low client

residential

area

but

it requires all APs to share a single channel and depends upon

coordinating

only one active transmitter at a time, so it simply won't scale.

I don't have experience with other vendors at large scale or high

density.


I don't think what you're talking about is really high density

anymore

though.  That's just normal coverage.  Wireless is a lot more

complicated

than selecting a vendor, though.  If you know what you're doing

even

Ubiquiti could work decently, but if you don't even a Cisco

solution

won't

save you.  You really need to be on top of surveying correctly

and

having

appropriate AP placement and channel distribution.





On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 1:57 AM, Sina Owolabi <

notify.sina () gmail com>

wrote:



Hi

We are profiling equipment and design for an expected high user

density

network of multiple, close nit, residential/hostel units. Its

going

to be

8-10 buildings with possibly a over 1000 users at any given

time.

We are looking at Ruckus and Ubiquiti as options to get over

the

high

number of devices we are definitely going to encounter.

How did you do it, and what would you advise for product and

layout?


Thanks in advance!





--
Ray Patrick Soucy
Network Engineer
University of Maine System

T: 207-561-3526
F: 207-561-3531

MaineREN, Maine's Research and Education Network
www.maineren.net









--
Ray Patrick Soucy
Network Engineer
University of Maine System

T: 207-561-3526
F: 207-561-3531

MaineREN, Maine's Research and Education Network
www.maineren.net
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