Re: eBay is looking for network heavies...

[Shane Ronan <shane () ronan-online com>]

When I was asked the default BGP timers across three different vendor
platforms as measure of my networking ability during an interview, I
replied saying I'd look them up if needed them.

I was told I didn't understand BGP in enough detail, despite being able to
describe all the steps of BGP session establishment and route exchange.

Certs have ruined the industry.
On Jun 7, 2015 11:20 PM, "Jimmy Hess" <mysidia () gmail com> wrote:

> On Sun, Jun 7, 2015 at 7:28 AM, Stephen Satchell <list () satchell net>
> wrote:
> > On 06/07/2015 01:10 AM, Joshua Riesenweber wrote:  [snip]
>
> What the industry could probably use most for entry-level certs is
> a  technical reading comprehension requirement on the certs, or a
> requirement
> of GRE  scores  e.g. 145 Verbal,  160 Math, before being able to obtain
> the certs,  to demonstrate an ability to read and understand documentation,
> including BNF,  and the ability to lookup something from a technical
> manual,
> read, understand, and apply it properly  using qualified background
> knowledge
> at the level being certified.
>
> Too often, certs concentrate on trivial minutia that is "trivially
> tested",  but also not
> frequently used,   so the population has a bunch of people who just paid
> copious $$$  for  in-person coaching on _just the specifics of the exam_,
> or people who memorized answers from stolen copies of exams.
>
> So even in that,  many of the tests  lose their ability, due to the
> intervention of
> 3rd party "learning providers"   who are just making a quick buck training
> candidates directly to exams,   instead of teaching the subject.
>
> In short: In regards to the use of certifications when hiring --- they
> can be used by
> non-technical reviewers to help filter candidates, where there are
> more applicants than
> desired.    Consider it a  "bulk" filtering criteria  that can be done
> instantly without wasting
> as much time,   and the final filter might be an internal quiz and
> human interviewers.
>
>
> The certs are no definitive measure, but candidates with Both
> experience and industry
> certs to help confirm the quality of that experience are more likely
> to be applicants worth
> committing serious time to evaluate,  And they can be used to help break
> ties
> between otherwise equal applicants  in favor of those certified.
>
>
> As to if it matters whether the certification is for Cisco equipment and
> you
> use X vendor equipment instead,  I would refer to
> semi-relevant link here:
> http://www.jasonbock.net/jb/News/Item/7c334037d1a9437d9fa6506e2f35eaac
>
>
> If Carpenters were hired like engineers....
> 'I see here, you have experience with cutting timber with "Makita and
> Milwaukee brand Skillsaws"
> Unfortunately,  we need someone with 25 years experience using the
> DeWalts.'
>
> Certifications can also be used by consultants/contractors to market
> services,
> or assure end customers that their services are by people  "qualified
> by the vendor
> of their equipment".
>
>
>
> > The R&S CCIE lab exame is a timed practical exam, and as certification
> tests
> > goes it does a fair job measuring the ability of the candidate to
> implement
> > routers and switches to obtain certain results, ON CISCO EQUIPMENT.
> (This
> > is also true of the other Cisco certification tracks.)
>
> Correct.   However,  earning a certification such as CCIE demonstrates
> that you are not
> one of those clueless folks who completely lacks understanding and
> ability to learn
> basic config and troubleshooting.    Earning the cert would require a
> great deal of practice
> due to their time limits,   therefore the candidate that holds one
> shows proof of
> a certain level of dedication to advancement or learning within the field.
>
> And sufficient technical aptitude and ability to learn is implied by
> the certificate to deal
> with other vendor's equipment, even though Cisco's certifications only
> address Cisco
> equipment directly;  there are many  vendor-neutral concepts which should
> have
> been understood for success.
>
>
> The specifics of configuration language and hardware are
> "implementation details".
> No certification measures a candidate's ability to quickly learn novel
> configuration syntax
> or special rules of arbitrary $new_vendor's  equipment.
>
> > One can learn how to do almost anything.  The real trick is being able to
> > finish tasks quickly, and that's damn hard to do without practice,
> practice,
>
> Ability to finish tasks *accurately* is what matters.
> But very simple things should be done quickly.
>
> The results of non-repetitive tasks should always be looked at carefully
> to help
> validate accuracy,,
>
> And the practice required to do any tasks that are frequent and repetitive
> should be gained by anyone qualified on the job fairly quickly.
>
> > That said, certifications show that the candidate can turn a wrench.  It
> > shows nothing about the candidate's ability to handle ARIN, to
> troubleshoot
> > political snafus, how to deal with management that is severely
>
> All of these are things that can be learned without a large amount of
> grief,
> you need reading comprehension;
> ARIN's policies and tools are fairly well documented in writing.
>
> The candidate who can't even learn and pass a cert test might actually
> be incapable of learning what is required on their own.
>
> It's not cost-effective to buy  in-person training or certify for
> *every little thing* that
> comes up later.
>
> > clue-deficient, and most important play nice with colleagues at other
>
> --
> -JH