re Who Confirms The Accuracy (or is it precision) Of ISP Usage [sic] Meters?

[Dave Farber <dave () farber net>]

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Bob Frankston <bob2-39 () bobf frankston com>
> Date: January 13, 2010 3:18:36 PM EST
> To: dave () farber net, 'ip' <ip () v2 listbox com>
> Subject: RE: [IP] Who Confirms The Accuracy (or is it precision) Of  
> ISP Usage [sic] Meters?

> I agree that the precision of the count is not the issue. (Remember  
> precision and accuracy are not the same thing).
>
> It's the question of what is being counted. I could go on with the  
> many ways in which counting bits past a carrier constriction point  
> is a perverse measure. There is packets vs. bits, carrier bits vs.  
> user bits, compression, cashing, look ahead s well as the choice of  
> where to meter.
>
> The deeper issue is our willingness to accept the bad metaphor that  
> leads us to think we are using up the "Internet" as if we were  
> consuming electricity.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Farber [mailto:dave () farber net]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 14:20
> To: ip
> Subject: [IP] Who Confirms The Accuracy Of ISP Usage Meters?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>
>
> From: "George Ou" <george_ou () lanarchitect net>
>
> Date: January 13, 2010 1:16:58 PM EST
>
> To: <schlake+gmail () gmail com>, "'Bob Poortinga'" <nnsquad () k9sql us>
>
> Cc: nnsquad () nnsquad org
>
> Subject: [ NNSquad ] Re: Who Confirms The Accuracy Of ISP Usage  
> Meters?
>
>
>
> This kind of paranoia is just getting silly.  It's basically  
> assuming that
>
> the ISP is committing fraud that is easily detectable.
>
>
>
> There are so many easy ways to measure this it's not even funny.  If  
> you're
>
> running a firewall like IPCOP or for example, it has extensive usage  
> reports
>
> which will almost certainly match what the ISP is reporting.   
> Moreover, you
>
> can measure the internal Ethernet interface which does not include DoS
>
> traffic because it gets blocked by the firewall.
>
>
>
> You can also easily enable PERFMON logging built into Windows and get
>
> second-by-second usage data.  This only gives you measurements on a  
> single
>
> computer though but a lot of people only have one computer.  You  
> could log
>
> data from multiple computers and just merge the data though.
>
>
>
>
>
> George
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: nnsquad-bounces+george_ou=lanarchitect.net () nnsquad org
>
> [mailto:nnsquad-bounces+george_ou=lanarchitect.net () nnsquad org] On  
> Behalf Of
>
> Schlake
>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 9:02 AM
>
> To: Bob Poortinga
>
> Cc: nnsquad () nnsquad org
>
> Subject: [ NNSquad ] Re: Who Confirms The Accuracy Of ISP Usage  
> Meters?
>
>
>
> So what we need is a independent device that can measure that network
>
> usage.  It should be open source, to be verifiable, and cheap.  It
>
> won't fix the problem, but it would put a solution in the hands of
>
> many users.  The more users that have it the more accountability which
>
> could be imposed on the service providers.
>
>
>
> A small box with two ethernet ports, one for the outside world, and
>
> one for the inside world.
>
>
>
> A web server on the inside world that displays statistics.
>
>
>
> An NTP server that keeps the time up to date.
>
>
>
> A configurator page that lets users configure ip blocks to be tracked
>
> separately (unmetered streaming video from the service provider for
>
> instance).
>
>
>
> A NAT-like interface that can count packets at a variety of
>
> resolutions.  Total packets through would be the main one, but what
>
> about attacks on peoples homes where you send a large amount of
>
> traffic at an IP address to raise their bill?  If that was detected
>
> and listed as a separate line item it could be useful.  In general,
>
> the more data a person can store about their own traffic the more
>
> useful it would be (I'm sure law enforcement would agree on this
>
> point).
>
>
>
> It would need a good robust data storage system internally, and a way
>
> to automatically synchronize the data into a machine on the inside
>
> world for backup purposes.
>
>
>
> Obviously if someone implements this you should send me some of the
>
> money you make from my idea!
>
>
>
>
>
>  [ Actually, much of this functionality already exists in, or
>
>    could be added to, somewhat higher-end commodity cable/DSL
>
>    modem/routers.
>
>
>
>    But what happens if a subscriber's locally gathered usage
>
>    statistics turn out to be at wide variance from the ISP's
>
>    official figures?  Then the real fun begins.
>
>
>
>       -- Lauren Weinstein
>
>          NNSquad Moderator ]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Bob Poortinga <nnsquad () k9sql us>  
> wrote:
>
> > Here's a good article in DSL Reports which brings up some important
>
> points:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> <http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Who-Confirms-The-Accuracy-Of-ISP-Usage-M
>
> eters-106292>
>
> >
>
> > --
>
> > Bob Poortinga  K9SQL
>
> > Bloomington, IN  US
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> -- Schlake
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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