more on NYC to search transit riders' bags -- but ...

[David Farber <dave () farber net>]

Begin forwarded message:

From: Denise Caruso <caruso () hybridvigor org>
Date: July 22, 2005 11:48:57 AM EDT
To: dave () farber net
Subject: Re: [IP] more on NYC to search transit riders' bags -- but ...


Dave,

I stayed up way too late last night reading the fascinating piece in  
the latest New Yorker (July 25) about NYPD's response to terrorism.  
It's by William Finnegan. I *highly* recommend this to people on the  
list who are interested in this issue.  It's not as black and white  
as it sounds; I was certainly surprised by it.

The piece isn't available online at the moment, but here's a Q&A with  
Finnegan:

http://www.newyorker.com/online/content/articles/050725on_onlineonly01

At the risk of spoiling the punchline, the end of the interview  
encapsulates some of the ambiguity of the issue -- certainly the  
ambiguity Finnegan feels about the situation, at least:

"That said, life in New York City has developed a more surveilled,  
paranoid, almost militarized tenor than it had before 9/11, and a  
good amount of that can be put down to the police, I think, and to  
programs like Hercules. Some people, I gather, find the sight of  
police teams in body armor and combat helmets, carrying assault  
rifles, comforting. I don't. There's an element of theatre to a lot  
of counterterror work, and it's not particularly edifying theatre.  
It's endless vigilance, no victory. Success means nothing happens.  
Such anti-drama is, of course, the essence of prevention."

Ack. Wake me up, please.  It seems I'm having a very long bad dream.

Blearily,
Denise


> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: Lauren Weinstein <lauren () vortex com>
> Date: July 22, 2005 9:49:56 AM EDT
> To: Charles Pinneo <pinneo () sbcglobal net>
> Cc: Dave Farber <dave () farber net>, Lauren Weinstein  
> <lauren () vortex com>
> Subject: Re: [IP] NYC to search transit riders' bags -- but ...
>
>
>
> How much useful "intelligence" you're going to collect looking in
> truly "random" people's bags in the NYC subway system (ever ridden
> that system?  I have) is highly, uh, questionable.  Now, if the real
> purpose is -- as you seem to imply -- to have an excuse for
> warrentless searches for people with certain racial or ethnic
> characteristics, and nothing whatever to do with real
> point-of-contact safety (in contrast to the stated purpose), then
> this is best defined as an attempted end-run around current law.
>
> If the authorities feel that they need to search the bags of people
> who look like they might be members of a certain religion, then let's
> have them come out and say it, have the appropriate public debate,
> and decide as citizens if that is a direction we really want to take
> this country.  Enough of treating us like children with fairy stories
> of "random" searches on massive transit systems that will somehow
> protect us.
>
> --Lauren--
>
>  - - -
>
>
>
> >  Lauren,
> >
> >  Common sense says that random searches are intelligence gathering in
> >  a cat and mouse game. The more we know about terrorist activities  
> > the
> >  more advantage we have against them. In the second world war the
> >  Nazis never found out that the allies had the enigma machine. Do you
> >  think the police are going to tell the public what they are really
> >  looking for? Hopefully they don't. We're all just guessing what will
> >  be found and what the outcome will be.
> >
> >  Charlie Pinneo
> >  pinneo () sbcglobal net
> >
> >  On Jul 21, 2005, at 5:36 PM, David Farber wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > >  Begin forwarded message:
> > >
> > >  From: Lauren Weinstein <lauren () vortex com>
> > >  Date: July 21, 2005 4:30:23 PM EDT
> > >  To: dave () farber net
> > >  Cc: lauren () vortex com
> > >  Subject: NYC to search transit riders' bags -- but ...
> > >
> > >
> > >  Dave,
> > >
> > >  As noted in:
> > >
> > >  http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/21/nyregion/21cnd-security.html?
> > >  pagewanted=2&hp
> > >
> > >  NYC is about to start "random" bag checks of transit system riders.
> > >
> > >  A number of questions immediately spring to mind.  Will the
> > >  inspections be truly (pseudo)-"random" in a mathematical sense, or
> > >  random in terms of "White-skinned all-American looking males are
> > >  rarely 'randomly' selected"?  What happens if inspectors find
> > >  contraband or suspicious radical materials during their searches
> > >  (e.g., printouts of your IP postings from this mailing list?)
> > >
> > >  Authorities say that persons who do not wish to be inspected  
> > > will be
> > >  allowed to leave.  Uh, does this mean they can just move onward to
> > >  some other station where the "random" selection isn't likely to hit
> > >  them the next time?  Or will they be followed, tracked, and
> > >  otherwise become a "person of interest" by virtue of refusing a
> > >  search?
> > >
> > >  And most depressingly, exactly how will this policy prevent
> > >  suicide bombers (presumably a key demographic) from exploding
> > >  their payloads in the terminals prior to or during inspections,
> > >  or bombers in general simply shifting from mass transit to any
> > >  number of other "soft" targets around the metropolitan area
> > >  (sidewalks?  stores?  shopping centers?  Times Square?)
> > >
> > >  Of course, this is the same NYC where authorities tried to ban
> > >  cameras on the transit system -- another brilliant security move.
> > >
> > >  You can't blame authorities for trying.  They are desperately
> > >  attempting to make people *feel* that they are safer, even when  
> > > they
> > >  know that their efforts in the face of such asymmetric threats  
> > > are a
> > >  drop in the bucket.  Even London with its vast camera-based
> > >  surveillance infrastructure, is learning that while such systems  
> > > may
> > >  be useful for after-the-fact analysis, they are largely impotent to
> > >  deter attacks overall.
> > >
> > >  The powers-that-be know all this.  The sooner that they start  
> > > talking
> > >  straight to citizens about the realities of these situations and  
> > > the
> > >  forces that create people willing to commit such attacks on  
> > > innocent
> > >  persons, the sooner we may all be able to work toward genuine
> > >  solutions that still preserve our basic values.
> > >
> > >  --Lauren--

--
'Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.'
                                               -- Philo of Alexandria
Denise Caruso
http://hybridvigor.org


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