RE: CodeRed Observations.

["larosa, vjay" <larosa_vjay () emc com>]

Hi Rob,

I'm not saying that the worm is stateless. I am saying that the
traffic I am seeing at my border firewalls (codered strings)
are not part of established sessions (stateless). I was just trying 
to figure out if this had something to do with the new outbreak, or if 
somebody is trying to trick me in to ignoring packets they don't
want me to see, so they are throwing a stateless attack at me to
hopefully hide the real attack under the guise of CodeRed. Call me crazy
but paranoia is my middle name.

vjl


-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Shein [mailto:shoten () starpower net]
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 11:50 AM
To: 'larosa, vjay'; incidents () securityfocus com
Subject: RE: CodeRed Observations.


I'd be careful and make sure, if I were you.  I don't think that the worm is
stateless, as it wouldn't be able to spread if it just sent data over TCP
without establishing the handshake first.  When you just PSH without
handshaking first, your data gets rejected.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: larosa, vjay [mailto:larosa_vjay () emc com] 
> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 11:32 AM
> To: 'Rob Shein'; larosa, vjay; incidents () securityfocus com
> Subject: RE: CodeRed Observations.
>
>
> There are no filters in place for viewing the firewall logs. 
> Even if there were, the attacks I am seeing are even targeted 
> to IP addresses that are not up and on-line in my network. So 
> how would a "get default.ida?XXX" string be sent to a host that 
> is,
>
> a) Not up on the network.
> b) Behind a firewall that blocks ALL incoming port 80.
>
> If there is no three way handshake to set up a TCP session
> I should not see this data trying to flow to my hosts (Dead 
> IP's or even live IP's). The traffic I am seeing is stateless 
> (Stick/Snot). 
>
> vjl
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Shein [mailto:shoten () starpower net]
> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 10:57 AM
> To: 'larosa, vjay'; incidents () securityfocus com
> Subject: RE: CodeRed Observations.
>
>
> Check your filters.  You might be looking at traffic through 
> a selection filter that doesn't show the handshake, so that 
> you can concentrate on the content that passes back and 
> forth.  That's what I usually find to be the case when 
> someone makes this kind of observation...
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: larosa, vjay [mailto:larosa_vjay () emc com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 7:48 PM
> > To: 'incidents () securityfocus com'
> > Subject: FW: CodeRed Observations.
> >
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I have been watching this recent spike in CodeRed activity and one
> > > thing I am noticing is the lack of TCP session 
> establishment. I am 
> > > seeing common get strings like this showing
> > > up at my firewalls without ever establishing a TCP three 
> > way handshake. I
> > > have seen several
> > > hundred packets with in the last two days similar to this
> > at my firewalls.
> > > 47 45 54 20 2F 64 65 66 61 75 6C 74 2E 69 64 61  GET
> > /default.ida 3F
> > > 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 58
> > ?XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX 58 58
> > > 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 58  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
> > 58 58 58
> > > 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 58  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX 58
> > 58 58 58
> > > 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 58 58  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
> Snip------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ----
> > > ------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > I find it awfully strange that there is no handshake (not even a
> > > single SYN to try and establish a session) but these 
> > packets show up
> > > anyway. I also am not seeing an increase of port 80
> > > scans in my firewall logs or with any of my IDS sensors. Is
> > anybody else
> > > out there seeing the
> > > same things we are?
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > vjl
> > >
> > > V.Jay LaRosa                           EMC Corporation
> > > Information Security                  4400 Computer Dr.
> > > (508)898-7433 office                  Westboro, MA 01580
> > > (508)353-1348 cell                     www.emc.com
> > > 888-799-9750 pager                   larosa_vjay () emc com
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > --------------
> >
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