Re: global warming is b/s? nice hatchet job

["Tomas L. Byrnes" <tomb () byrneit net>]

If anyone's loud and shrill it's the "It's a disaster and we have to
implement Kyoto NOW, you <insert expletive>!" crowd.

I will agree that the debate has degenerated into namecalling, as
opposed to trying to rationally address the issues.

1: Is the world warming? Seems to be true.

2: Is it man-made?  Perhaps, but there's no doubt that at least one of
our actions, releasing CO2 into the atmosphere, tends to cause it, so we
are probably accelerating any natural effect in 1 above.

3: Is this a bad thing? The wailing of "Planet In Peril", "An
Inconvenient Truth", and the other propaganda pieces of the
lefty-infotainment crowd notwithstanding, I think there hasn't been
really serious discussion of this.

4: If it IS bad, where on the list of problems facing the human race is
it? IMNSHO, radical Islamism (to include their birthrates); the lack of
potable water; and a growing centralization of power in a transnational
elite that are beholden to no-one but themselves, with the attendant
widening of the gulf between haves and have-nots; are all bigger
problems than even the direst predictions if a 5 Celsius rise were to
occur. The latter will be exacerbated by all the remedies for Climate
Change that are currently on the table, by empowering transnational,
unelected, bureaucrats.

5: If it is important to fix, how best to do it? IMNSHO all the current
proposals won't reduce the total CO2 emissions one iota, and will
increase the other harmful emissions that have been reduced in the
industrialized nations, as industrial production is shifted to places
that either aren't party to the agreements (India and China) or where
the rule of law is easily subverted (Brazil etc.).

So, while the debate has degenerated into screeching by religious nuts
of the Gaianist or "Manifest Destiny" persuasion at each other about
item 1 and 2; the real issues that need to be debated are in 3-5, and I
see precious little discussion of them.

Color me a "denier" if you wish, but you'd be wrong. I'm a pragmatist
who doesn't think telling the tide not to come in is likely to be
successful.

To keep this on topic: I think that "Climate Change" is the least
important reason to move off of oil. I believe the #1 problem in the
world is the enrichment of religious lunatics who want to cause the
arrival of the 12th Imam or subjugate the whole world to Allah by
shifting wealth from the industrialized nations to the OPEC ones. That's
a SECURITY problem, and one we should have addressed in the 80s, instead
of creating the monster of Al Qaeda in Afghanistan.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan Kaminsky [mailto:dan () doxpara com]
> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 5:19 PM
> To: Alex Eckelberry
> Cc: Tomas L. Byrnes; Gadi Evron; funsec
> Subject: Re: [funsec] global warming is b/s? nice hatchet job
>
> *shrugs* The deniers are loud. The rest of us see the argument as
> pointless as whether Palin is competent or not, i.e. the point is the
> argument itself.
>
>
>
> On Jul 12, 2009, at 12:13 PM, "Alex Eckelberry" <AlexE@sunbelt-
> software.com
> > wrote:
>
> > I am perhaps in the minority on this list in that I actually believe
> > in
> > global climate change/warming.   That's not to say that I am not
aware
> > of (and concerned about) the other agendas of some of the
> > environmental
> > groups out there (population control, etc.).
> >
> > However, not worth getting into a debate about it -- there's plenty
of
> > that going on out there.
> >
> > But I'm going to sit on the sidelines and see if this thread beats
out
> > either guns or twitter in posts.  Will be interesting to watch.
> >
> >
> > Alex
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: funsec-bounces () linuxbox org
[mailto:funsec-bounces () linuxbox org]
> > On Behalf Of Tomas L. Byrnes
> > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 5:54 PM
> > To: Gadi Evron; funsec
> > Subject: Re: [funsec] global warming is b/s? nice hatchet job
> >
> > The water temp here in San Diego remains under 68F, and last anyone
> > checked, we're about where we were when Columbus sailed for the new
> > world, which is when the cooling towards the "little ice age"
started.
> > Personally, I'd like a planet more along the lines of the Cambrian
> > climate. Then most people wouldn't live in cold places where fruits
> > and
> > vegetables don't grow.
> >
> > Take a look in the mirror, except for Neanderthal half breeds like
> > Gadi
> > and myself, there's not enough hair on that body to stay warm
anywhere
> > except the tropics.
> >
> > However, for SECURITY reasons, we need to stop using OIL, because the
> > biggest threat to civilization are the people it enriches.
> >
> > Besides, for most types of driving, electric motors are faster,
thanks
> > to having full torque @ 0 RPM and a flat curve.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: funsec-bounces () linuxbox org [mailto:funsec-
> > > bounces () linuxbox org]
> > > On Behalf Of Gadi Evron
> > > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 9:02 AM
> > > To: funsec
> > > Subject: [funsec] global warming is b/s? nice hatchet job
> > >
> > > wow, just... wow. Even if this is real it is a master-piece of how
to
> > > discredit, write fake and unsubstantiated:
> http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/162241/17_200_Scientists_Dispute_
> > G
> > > lobal_Warming
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Gadi Evron,
> > > ge () linuxbox org.
> > >
> > > Blog: http://gevron.livejournal.com/
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > debate mailing list
> > > debate () whitestar linuxbox org
> > > http://whitestar.linuxbox.org/mailman/listinfo/debate
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> > _______________________________________________
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