Re: [privacy] A few thoughts, well spoken.

["Alex Eckelberry" <AlexE () sunbelt-software com>]

Dennis, 

This thread should probably be moved to Funsec.  Or, it should probably
be killed since it's political in nature. 

But as a general note:

There is a serious and troubling trend in our society today.  This has
been created by the following artificial dichotomy:

1. People on the left are weak on crime and terrorism.  They are a bunch
of crying panty-waist wimps who would use our constitution to protect
perverts, drug lords and terrorists.  

2. People on the right are tough on crime, terrorism, etc. Terrorists
obey no laws, why should we.  Etc. 

These views are promulgated by the likes of Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh
and Sean Hannity.  

They feed into decades of frustration by people who are actually tough,
want justice and are conservative and are sick of panty-waist wimps in
general (whether on the left or the right). 

The problem is, this dichotomy has created nowhere for a rational
thinker to go.  Jack Goldsmith is such a man -- a fiercely conservative
Republican who was genuinely shocked at the excesses of power by the
Bush administration. And anyone who has really schooled themselves in
the constitution and its theory _is_ genuinely shocked at what is
happening. 

The cold reality is that the Bush administration is in the process of
decimating our individual and constitutional freedoms.  I am a
conservative, but I'm also a rationalist, and I'm genuinely appalled at
the what is happening here to our civil liberties.  Of course, this
immediately tags me as 1) above, which is ridiculous. 

A central conservative tenant is:  Governments are not to be trusted.
Yet conservatives are willy-nilly promoting trust of the government. 

We really don't need to wreck civil liberties in order to protect our
country.  

Alex


-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Henderson [mailto:hendomatic () gmail com] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 10:27 AM
To: privacy () whitestar linuxbox org
Subject: Re: [privacy] A few thoughts, well spoken.

As soon as I can get to a proper keyboard.

In the meantime.

Tell me about how al quada qualifies rights under geneva conventions.
What country is their ofiicial geneva convention sponsor?

Tell me how alqueda adheres to the same. I didn't know beheading and
dragging soldiers, dead and on fire, thru city streets was part of the
geneva convention.

Tell me about one American citizen whose civil rights have been violated
by the "warrantless" wiretapping" I can tell you about a plot that was
foiled by the same.


And I don't even want to hear about "torture"

All thus "violated the law" crap is nothing until proven IN a court of
law.  You can sit in your armchair and wail about it all day. I can also
call it claptrap.




On 9/11/07, Ken Dyke <kdyke () keycomputerconsultants com> wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 11, 2007 at 06:28:07AM -0500, Dennis Henderson
> (hendomatic () gmail com) wrote:
> > Claptrap.
>
> To avoid being dismissed in a like manner perhaps you would like to 
> back that up by pointing out some factual errors from the item linked
to...  ?
> > On 9/11/07, Paul Ferguson <fergdawg () netzero net> wrote:
> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > Hash: SHA1
> > >
> > > Here:
> > >
> > > http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070924/melber
> > >
> > > - - ferg
> > >
> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > > Version: PGP Desktop 9.6.3 (Build 3017)
> > >
> > > wj8DBQFG5j0Qq1pz9mNUZTMRAh3fAKCKWGFPjNQDTy1gmoCMDMTJONGS+ACfeRKY
> > > 5M6oBxWYwX64IiIxw7QeEOw=
> > > =Mn1n
> > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > "Fergie", a.k.a. Paul Ferguson
> > >  Engineering Architecture for the Internet  
> > > fergdawg(at)netzero.net  ferg's tech blog: 
> > > http://fergdawg.blogspot.com/
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > privacy mailing list
> > > privacy () whitestar linuxbox org
> > > http://www.whitestar.linuxbox.org/mailman/listinfo/privacy
> > _______________________________________________
> > privacy mailing list
> > privacy () whitestar linuxbox org
> > http://www.whitestar.linuxbox.org/mailman/listinfo/privacy
>
> --
> Ken Dyke,
> 406.581.0495
>
> "Linux can win as long as services/protocols are commodities.  By 
> folding extended functionality into today's commodity services and 
> creating new protocols, we raise the bar and change the rules of the
game."
>        -- from an internal Microsoft memo 
> _______________________________________________
> privacy mailing list
> privacy () whitestar linuxbox org
> http://www.whitestar.linuxbox.org/mailman/listinfo/privacy
_______________________________________________
privacy mailing list
privacy () whitestar linuxbox org
http://www.whitestar.linuxbox.org/mailman/listinfo/privacy
_______________________________________________
privacy mailing list
privacy () whitestar linuxbox org
http://www.whitestar.linuxbox.org/mailman/listinfo/privacy