Re: wow - is a "shadow" politician still a politician?

[Nick FitzGerald <nick () virus-l demon co uk>]

Black Ops Security wrote:

> maybe we should apply your logic to computer crime and spam ... and just 
> start taking away everybody's keyboards until computer crime and spam 
> decrease.

Or maybe we should apply Brian's (and your?) logic and give _everyone_ 
computers and watch computer crime and spam fall to zero?

Stupid absolutist nonsense phrasings of the (assumed) other position 
(that you refuse to properly understand) are commonly known as 
"strawman" arguments and usually also useless engaging when the 
opposing side uses them as it takes an especially low intellect, or 
especially high disingenuity, to propose such arguments as if they are 
of any argumentative value...

Brian actually does claim that increased gun ownership not only 
correlates with lower gun crime and/or death rates but is causally 
related, so it's not wrong or misleading to ask him, as Richard has, 
what level of gun ownership in the US will reduce gun crime to the 
level it is in the UK.  However, no sane "pro gun ban" supporter would 
ever argue that blanket banning gun ownership will produce NIL gun 
crime, yet Brian and you (and many other morons) re-phrase the gun ban 
position as proposing that, or even more moronincally, criticize the 
pro gun ban position because places with gun bans don't have nil gun-
crime rates.

The debate is really about whether the equilibrium position under a gun 
ban (which takes quite some time to come about, particularly if such a 
ban were implemented in a region with historically high gun ownership)  
is likely to produce a more desirable (i.e., generally, "lower") rate 
of such crimes (and/or have other, gretaer societal benefits) than some 
other model (open slather, restricted ownership through strict 
licensing, required total gun ownership, etc).

_Those_ are very difficult issues to tease out of the available 
evidence and folk of your and Brian's debating and research skills, and 
a forum such as this, seem very unlikely to begin to do a worthwhile 
job of approaching the answers to these issues...


Regards,

Nick FitzGerald

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