Re: [privacy] Social Security Card to be National ID?

["Alex Eckelberry" <AlexE () sunbelt-software com>]

Well, here's one thing we both agree on:

> We need to allow people who WANT to come here to become CITIZENS into
this country. 

Alex



-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Loe [mailto:knobdy () gmail com] 
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 3:29 PM
To: Alex Eckelberry
Cc: Randy Abrams; C Q; privacy () whitestar linuxbox org
Subject: Re: [privacy] Social Security Card to be National ID?

On 5/21/07, Alex Eckelberry <AlexE () sunbelt-software com> wrote:
> Brian -- the problem is it's virtually impossible to enter this 
> country legally.

I have to wonder how that might relate to their being so many illegals
here already? 30 million is a LOT.

> I run a fairly well-sized company.  In a state with basically zero 
> unemployment (Florida), getting good people is virtually impossible.  
> I do not like the offshoring model, insisting that our core teams are 
> here at our head office (call me old-fashioned, but I believe it works

> better that way).  This puts me at a significant disadvantage in terms

> of getting high quality employees.  Often, we get people in other 
> countries who want to come to Sunbelt and work. However, the gauntlet 
> you have to run in order to get them here makes it an extremely
difficult
> proposition.   And forget it if they don't have a degree, or a
graduate
> degree.

I was unemployed for two years, never heard about any job offers from
Florida?! Why import talent, has to be just as easy to recruit from
elsewhere in the country - and I had a cousin, a programmer, unemployed
for three months in south dakota just this last year. I would prefer you
not go off-shore OR bring in talent (and I work with three Indians). If
we don't invest in the people we have here what is going to happen?
Regardless, you're not hiring illegals not because you don't want to
break the law - illegals aren't skilled enough to be of any help to you.

> I also live in a state where getting legal talent for blue-collar jobs

> is beyond difficult -- it's basically impossible.  Again, the 
> zero-unemployment problem.  All of the construction is done by
Mexicans.
> Legal, illegal, whatever, the general contractors just require the 
> subs to have their basic paperwork.  And that is not a guarantee of
legality.

I have a buddy from the pool hall up here in Missouri - he's been in
Florida for two years now, working construction. Once again, if you need
them, they're out there.

> But the Mexicans do contribute economically, at least in this state, 
> since the state has no income tax (Florida relies almost exclusively 
> on the sales tax along with taxes on cigarettes, booze, and gasoline 
> and lottery proceeds to pay its bills). Hence, the Mexicans pay sales 
> tax when they buy stuff and contribute to the economic system to the
same
> degree that anyone else does.   And if they use a fake social, well,
> someone else is going to get a nice retirement benefit, I suppose.  
> But they are paying into the system.

They use those socials and get credit cards and the next thing you know
they're buying cars in your name. This isn't a rare scenario either -
its just not politically correct to talk about. What about federal
taxes? All of the entitlements they take advantage of (social security,
welfare, hospital care) come out of the federal trough - so regardless
of where they are in the country, they're stealing from me.

> Yes, when they go in for emergency treatment (which is quite a bit 
> rarer than one might think, as they exhaust their home remedies first 
> and use the hospital as a last-ditch effort), the state pays if the 
> immigrant can't afford it.  Well, guess what, it's the same as for 
> many other low-wage earners in Florida.
>
> As regards "felons", that is a broad generality. While bad people come

> over, I find little evidence that the number is any larger than the 
> felons-at-large we have in our own system.

I guess you should visit some of the neighborhoods in the county I work
in (Kansas City, KC - Wyandotte) and see just what a large illegal
population will do to a community. There are a LOT of felonious illegals
coming across that border, LOTS. You'll see them in the jails around
here every night of the week - after committing new felonies, for which
they're not likely to ever do time for.

Also add in the cost of their being here the damage they do to property
values. My sister lived in a low-middle class neighborhood in the town I
live in. ONE Mexican family moved in (with not exaggeration, 10 people
maybe? Hard to keep track. With all of them living in a shack, with four
cars, two dogs, cats that came and..never seen again... She moved out of
the neighborhood and took a loss on her house. The wrecked the
neighborhood values. The only remedy? Sue the landlord for giving them
sanctuary...which will probably not work.


> I'm not "pro" illegal immigration.  We do need reform.  We need to 
> make it possible to bring in the low-wage earners that keep this 
> country going.  And we also need to be able to bring in the high-wage 
> earners that help us remain competitive.

No, we don't. We need to allow people who WANT to come here to become
CITIZENS into this country. And we need to make sure that they can do
everything every other immigrant before them was able to do - speaking
English would be a great start.

We need to teach and train our own, native children to become high-wage
earners to help us remain competitive. These people MUST come from
within.


> The solution so far is for companies to go offshore, which most mid to

> large-sized companies have done to some degree.  That doesn't really 
> help anyone.  I'd rather have illegals than that.

I agree that it doesn't help anyone, but I disagree that allowing
illegals helps anyone either.

....
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