Full Disclosure mailing list archives
RE: Computer Sabotage by Microsoft
From: Jay Sulzberger <jays () panix com>
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:28:25 -0400 (EDT)
On Thu, 11 Sep 2003, Rick Kingslan wrote:
Jay, All good points. You possibly misunderstand - I'm not in any way arguing the absurdity. That, it is - and I fully concur and concede that point. However, unless one is independently wealthy with plenty of reserves, I seriously question taking on MS and the EULAs over a ~$200.00US video console. THAT is absurd.....
I think it is worth doing, else their EVIL PLOTS creep ahead.
However, I do think that you CAN sell me a car that only turns left on Sundays IF I am stupid enough to READ the contract and SIGN the same - giving up my right to litigation over a 'feature' that occurs because of 'human error' in the design and build process. Or, possibly it's a feature that other customers asked for and received because they promised to by thousands of those cars for stock car racing on Sunday nights. Regardless, it was in the contract.... If you don't read, you get what you pay for. Caveat Emptor.... -rtk
Sure. I think we agree here. For what lengths Microsoft and, in this case, Toshiba, will go in assaulting the law, see http://windowsrefund.net and follow the link to the transcript of Adam Kosmin's first case against Toshiba, to get his refund. A high Toshiba executive, in charge of dealing with Microsoft, testifies that he never heard of the refund clause of the Microsoft EULA. This is after he was coming down to the court house for months with Toshiba's lawyer, in a case dealing solely with the refund clause ;) oo--JS.
-----Original Message----- From: Jay Sulzberger [mailto:jays () panix com] Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 10:07 PM To: Rick Kingslan Cc: full-disclosure () lists netsys com; Jay Sulzberger Subject: RE: [Full-disclosure] Computer Sabotage by Microsoft On Thu, 11 Sep 2003, Rick Kingslan wrote:"So I want my money back. I payed for a black box with specific features the font hack was one of the features. If they kill this feature, they kill my property and have to pay for it." Uhhhh.... Yeah. That's gonna happen. I suggest not holding your breath while you wait, however. -rtkNo. Likely the case would be won in many jurisdictions. There is a law of buying and selling, and such absurd denials of most of this body of law as the Microsoft EULAs will not stand. But if we do not fight, Microsoft might win some stuff here. I recommend fighting. Example: I cannot sell you a car with the proviso that you make no left turns on Sundays. Microsoft EULAs are often more absurd than this. Indeed the one we are discussing is worse: it says that you must accept invasion of your computer and sabotage of the software. Of course you do not have to accept this EULA. You bought a piece of hardware and now you are running it in your house. Microsoft gets to say nothing about what you do with your bought and paid for computer in the privacy of your house. oo--JS.-----Original Message----- From: full-disclosure-admin () lists netsys com [mailto:full-disclosure-admin () lists netsys com] On Behalf Of Stefan Esser Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 3:59 PM To: Rainer Gerhards Cc: full-disclosure () lists netsys com Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] Computer Sabotage by Microsoft Hello,I can understand you frustration of no linux & cracked games anymore, but "written permission"... Well, well...You misunderstand me completely beside the fact that you accuse me of creating copies of games. I am the person who cracked the xbox open via the font hack and I am not frustrated at all, because I can revert the illegal changes of MS to MY hardware anytime. It is just that MS has no fucking right to autoupdate my box. No matter if I am a LIVE customer or not. They can terminate my license and pay me my money back if the update is really needed, which it is not.As you said "it *finally* happened" ;) If you purchase that blackbox design, you get what you pay for. Microsoft never said it did these things that you try to do. While there are good points to blame them, I think this time it is not. It is simply doing what it wassupposed to...There is NOT a single word in the whole EULA and documentation of the XBOX that it will not execute nonsigned software. I found a way to work around this defect. Microsoft destroyed that way, they killed one of the features (again... nowhere in the docu is written that this is NOT one of the features) So I want my money back. I payed for a black box with specific features the font hack was one of the features. If they kill this feature, they kill my property and have to pay for it. Yours, Stefan Esser -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Stefan Esser s.esser () e-matters de e-matters Security http://security.e-matters.de/ GPG-Key gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-key 0xCF6CAE69 Key fingerprint B418 B290 ACC0 C8E5 8292 8B72 D6B0 7704 CF6C AE69 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Did I help you? Consider a gift: http://wishlist.suspekt.org/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
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Current thread:
- RE: Computer Sabotage by Microsoft, (continued)
- RE: Computer Sabotage by Microsoft Jay Sulzberger (Sep 11)
- Re: Computer Sabotage by Microsoft Joseph Ercole (Sep 11)
- Re: Computer Sabotage by Microsoft Azerail (Sep 13)
- Re: Computer Sabotage by Microsoft Jay Sulzberger (Sep 13)
- RE: Computer Sabotage by Microsoft Jay Sulzberger (Sep 11)
- Re: Computer Sabotage by Microsoft Stefan Esser (Sep 11)
- RE: Computer Sabotage by Microsoft Andy Wood (Sep 11)
- RE: Computer Sabotage by Microsoft Rick Kingslan (Sep 11)
- RE: Computer Sabotage by Microsoft Jay Sulzberger (Sep 11)
- RE: Computer Sabotage by Microsoft Rick Kingslan (Sep 11)
- RE: Computer Sabotage by Microsoft Jay Sulzberger (Sep 11)
- Re: Computer Sabotage by Microsoft Peter van den Heuvel (Sep 11)
- Re: Computer Sabotage by Microsoft William Warren (Sep 11)
- Re: Computer Sabotage by Microsoft Peter van den Heuvel (Sep 11)
- Re: RE: Computer Sabotage by Microsoft Michael D Schleif (Sep 12)
- Re: Computer Sabotage by Microsoft Stefan Esser (Sep 11)