Full Disclosure mailing list archives
RE: JAP back doored
From: "Rainer Gerhards" <rgerhards () hq adiscon com>
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 09:53:09 +0200
I haven't had any problem issuing security advisories. What is this in reference to?
DMCA
Pointing the finger elsewhere does not excuse the fact that the German State has trojanized a popular application which was open to the world to download. And, indeed, the world did download. Here are some things I do not care if Germany does: - I don't care if they listen to their own wires - I don't care if they hack into their own criminals systems - I do not care if they use zero day to do this - I do not even care if they hack into criminals systems in other countries if they have some jurisdiction in this and are working with other authorities. For instance, if they were hacking into terrorist networks which spanned across the world and were sharing this information, I would not care. A German cop has no jurisdiction over me. He has no jurisdiction over anyone outside of Germany. This is the same for every country.
<rant> Sorry, but I need to violently disagree. Let me first of all say that I am very pro-US. But you are acting out the attitude that others let think of the imperialistic US and creates a bad view on the US in general. For example, the US gets jurisdiction about me if - we sell to Cuba (via some tricks in the helms-burton and follow up acts) - violate the DMCA (And this *can* be done by posting an advisor or an exploit) - if I do some reasearch, I will most probably find more, beginning from tax laws to all kinds of laws. Sure, the (typically) can't reach me unless I enter US ground. But then they can and will do (should I remind you of some russian floks... ;)). The US Gouvernment is very well at censoring (see library vs. filter issue) and DOES a great deal of monitoring of the Internet. It doesn't help the TIA has been renamed. It is kind of sarcatsic that it now says it won't affect US citicens but all others. Is that why you claim the US has better laws ;) Ok, it is natural and to be expected that a nation cares about its own citiens. After all, this is what citicenship is good for. It is natural that the US protects its own interests and laws. But accept the fact that other nations do this, too. Otherwise you add to the (thankfully mostly false impression) of the "ignorant American". As another poster pointed out, the US have a *big* monitoring spot over here in Germany where they spy on telephone conversation, faxes and nowadays probably email (btw: they operate it partly together with the British). It is kind of ironic: While I don't know the inner workings of JAB, it may have very well been the case that an US citizen used the German server (before it became "trojaned") and the US monitoring took record of what he did. Also, for obvious reasons, this email will be scanned by the NSA. So, ironically, by using a German service an US citicen may become monitored by the US just because of the fact that the US monitoring post in Germany (and there are others in other countries) did assume he is not an US citizen because he virtually left the country. Quite ironic, isn't it? But it doesn't matter, the US GOV already has (or will shortly) install monitoring devices in all US Internet exchanges, if you remeber that discussion. Such movements are being accelerated by the latest anti-terrorrism laws, which find many abusers... What is the bottom line: the US is a Big Brother in many respects. I don't think it is correct for an US citizen to assume that the others are the bad guys just because the do (partly) of what the US does for decades now... </rant> Generally, I think that is only vaguely an issue of either Germany or the US - it is an issue of local laws not catching up with the Internet. And it is an issue of the worldwide movement towards less freedom. We need to stand up against it, but I also think we need to stand up against this within the law system. Democracy definitely is not bullet-proof and has its weaknesses - but it is the best system I know and even though it is slow, we should take some time to fight the needed fights... Rainer _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
Current thread:
- Re: JAP back doored, (continued)
- Re: JAP back doored felix . roennebeck (Aug 22)
- Re: JAP back doored Azerail (Aug 22)
- Re: JAP back doored felix . roennebeck (Aug 25)
- Re: JAP back doored Florian Weimer (Aug 21)
- Re: JAP back doored Adam Shostack (Aug 22)
- RE: JAP back doored Drew Copley (Aug 22)
- RE: JAP back doored Drew Copley (Aug 22)
- Re: JAP back doored Adam Shostack (Aug 22)
- Re: JAP back doored Valdis . Kletnieks (Aug 27)
- Re: JAP back doored Goncalo Costa (Aug 27)
- RE: JAP back doored Drew Copley (Aug 27)
- Re: JAP back doored Jeremiah Cornelius (Aug 27)
- RE: JAP back doored Drew Copley (Aug 27)