What is the size of this list?

[goertzel_karen at bah.com (Goertzel, Karen [USA])]

Actually, we can't prove programs are bug free if by "bug" we also mean all possible anomalous behaviours. My 
colleagues keep pointing this out to me when I suggest that we should start leveraging the computational power of 
computing grids to analyze complex software the same way other researchers are using grids to develop models of the 
natural world, the human genome, etc. They keep quoting that bloke Kurt G?del with his pesky little incompletness 
theorem as proof that 100% complete analysis of software cannot be done. Frankly, I'm beginning to think this is their 
excuse for not even trying to get me to the 50%. But the point is, even if you can do everything "right" in terms of 
building software to be vulnerability-free and behaviourally-benign, you apparently cannot achieve 100% verification 
that you've done so. Ergo, assurance can never be 100%. 


Karen Mercedes Goertzel, CISSP
Associate
703.698.7454
goertzel_karen at bah.com
________________________________________
From: sc-l-bounces at securecoding.org [sc-l-bounces at securecoding.org] On Behalf Of Brad Andrews [andrews at 
rbacomm.com]
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 11:41 AM
To: sc-l at securecoding.org
Subject: Re: [SC-L] What is the size of this list?

I completely agree with your final statement Karen, but I see a lot
more of the words aiming at the 100% mark and I think that is
ultimately a bad focus since it is unachievable and therefore will
waste focus and effort.

While on paper we can "prove" programs are bug free (security-related
or not), it doesn't work in practice.  I may be biased by my
experience, but you won't be able to design a perfect program anymore
than you can design a "flawless" piece of handmade furniture.  Flaws
happen.  They focus should be on minimizing them and reducing the risk
that any flaws that make it through will cripple the end product,
whether it be a wood table or a software program.

A recent CERT podcast implied that we could reach your 100% as we
matured and that has just stuck in my craw.  I don't think it really
is achievable, though making the case is going to take more than a
quick reply on this list.

--

Brad Andrews
RBA Communications
CISM, CSSLP, SANS/GIAC GSEC, GCFW, GCIH, GPCI

[snippety snip]