RE: Netflix banning HE tunnels

[Matthew Huff <mhuff () ox com>]

Yes we do.

The is a document dump with the contract information between Netflix and the content providers. A link was sent in this 
email chain, or you can do a search for it. Neither side has been shy about what they are doing. They publically have 
stated they are blocking VPN access to NetFlix.

----
Matthew Huff             | 1 Manhattanville Rd
Director of Operations   | Purchase, NY 10577
OTA Management LLC       | Phone: 914-460-4039
aim: matthewbhuff        | Fax:   914-694-5669

From: Spencer Ryan [mailto:sryan () arbor net]
Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 4:02 PM
To: Tony Hain <alh-ietf () tndh net>
Cc: Matthew Huff <mhuff () ox com>; Laszlo Hanyecz <laszlo () heliacal net>; North American Network Operators' Group 
<nanog () nanog org>
Subject: Re: Netflix banning HE tunnels

We don't know, and will never know if the content providers went to Netflix and said "You need to ban based on IP 
range" speculation at this point isn't useful.


Spencer Ryan | Senior Systems Administrator | sryan () arbor net<mailto:sryan () arbor net>
Arbor Networks
+1.734.794.5033 (d) | +1.734.846.2053 (m)
www.arbornetworks.com<http://www.arbornetworks.com/>

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 4:00 PM, Tony Hain <alh-ietf () tndh net<mailto:alh-ietf () tndh net>> wrote:
Matthew,

I was not complaining about the business model, or the need to comply with content provider requirements. The issue is 
the pathetic implementation choice that Netflix made when a trivial alternative was available. I agree that setting up 
rwhois and trusting the 3rd party tunnel providers to provide valid information is substantially more effort than the 
ROI on this would justify, but a redirect to IPv4-only requires no additional 3rd party trust for geo-loc than an IPv4 
connection to begin with, would still catch the bad actors, yet works correctly for those trying to move the Internet 
forward.

Tony


> -----Original Message-----
> From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces () nanog org<mailto:nanog-bounces () nanog org>] On Behalf Of Matthew
> Huff
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2016 12:45 PM
> To: Laszlo Hanyecz; nanog () nanog org<mailto:nanog () nanog org>
> Subject: RE: Netflix banning HE tunnels
>
> The content providers wouldn't care if it was a very small number of people
> evading their region restrictions, but it isn't a small number. Those avoiding
> it are already not in good faith. While I don't agree with the content
> providers business model, it's their content, their rules.
>
> If you don't think it's right that Netflix is blocking VPNs and tunnels, then
> switch to Hulu and/or Amazon, however it's just matter of time before they
> start blocking VPNs and tunnels themselves.
>
> I agree that matching Geolocation with source IP addresses is a bad idea, but
> until someone comes up with a better idea and gets it implemented ( one
> that can't be modified by the end user), people with a business model that
> depends on it will continue to block based on IP. "Good faith" will be
> laughed at, and rightly so.
>
>
>
> ----
> Matthew Huff             | 1 Manhattanville Rd Director of Operations   |
> Purchase, NY 10577 OTA Management LLC       | Phone: 914-460-4039<tel:914-460-4039>
> aim: matthewbhuff        | Fax:   914-694-5669<tel:914-694-5669>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces () nanog org<mailto:nanog-bounces () nanog org>] On Behalf Of Laszlo
> > Hanyecz
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2016 3:34 PM
> > To: nanog () nanog org<mailto:nanog () nanog org>
> > Subject: Re: Netflix banning HE tunnels
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2016-06-08 18:57, Javier J wrote:
> > > Tony, I agree 100% with you. Unfortunately I need ipv6 on my media
> > subnet
> > > because it's part of my lab. And now that my teenage daughter is
> > > complaining about Netflix not working g on her Chromebook I'm
> > starting to
> > > think consumers should just start complaining to Netflix. Why should
> > I have
> > > to change my damn network to fix Netflix?
> > >
> > > In her eyes it's "daddy fix Netflix" but the heck with that. The man
> > hours
> > > of the consumers who are affected to work around this issue is less
> > than
> > > the man hours it would take for Netflix to redirect you with a 301
> > > to
> > an
> > > ipv4 only endpont.
> > >
> > > If Netflix needs help with this point me in the right direction.
> > > I'll
> > be
> > > happy to fix it for them and send them a bill.
> >
> > They're doing the same thing with IPv4 (banning people based on the
> > apparent IP address).  Your IPv4 numbers may not be on their blacklist
> > at the moment, and disabling IPv6 might work for you, but the
> > underlying problem is the practice of GeoIP/VPN blocking, and the
> > HE.net tunnels are just one example of the collateral damage.
> >
> > I don't know why Netflix and other GeoIP users can't just ask
> > customers where they are located, instead of telling them.  It is
> > possible that some user might lie, but what about "assume good faith"?
> > It shows how much they value you as a customer if they would rather
> > dump you than trust you to tell them where you are located.
> >
> > -Laszlo