RE: Netflix banning HE tunnels

["Tony Hain" <alh-ietf () tndh net>]

Ca By wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 7, 2016, chris <tknchris () gmail com> wrote:
>
> > it really feels alot like what net neutrality was supposed to avoid.
> > making a policy where there is different treatment of one set of bits
> > over another
> >
> > "your ipv6 bits are bad but if you turn it off the ipv4 bits are just fine"
> >
> > someone mentioned the fact that netflix is not just a content company
> > but also acting as a network operator maybe the two should be separate
> >
> > i also find it ironic that they arent big fans of ISPs who use NAT or
> > CGN and dont have 1 customer per IP yet their stifiling ipv6 and
> > telling users to turn it off. you really cant have it both ways and
> > complain about NAT and also say you recommend shutting off ipv6 :)
> >
> > hopefully they will realize imposing their own policy on how customers
> > use their networks and the internet  this isnt worth losing customers
> > over
> >
> > chris
>
> Again. An HE tunnel is not production ipv6. It is a toy.

Well, "service that works" from an OTT provider vs. "useless crap that is unsupported" from the L2 provider would beg 
to differ about the definition of toy. While there has been substantial effort by the participants on this list to get 
IPv6 deployed across their national network, the local support team from my ISP continues to give me the "IPv6 is not 
supported" crap response when I complain that all I am getting for a business class connection is a /64, and I need a 
/48. 

> Telling people to turn of HE tunnel is NOT the same as turning off
> production ipv6.

Rather than telling people to turn off IPv6, Netflix should have just redirected to an IPv4-only name and let that 
geo-loc deal with it. If the account was trying to use a vpn to bypass geo-loc, it would still fail, but those trying 
to bypass lethargic ISP deployment/support of IPv6 would not notice unless they looked. Given that they are likely 
watching the Netflix content at the time, they would be very unlikely to notice the packet headers so this would never 
have become an issue. 

Fortunately in my case since I view Netflix through Chromecasts, I can turn off IPv6 on the media subnet and not impact 
the rest of my IPv6 use. I shouldn't have to do that, but the ability to isolate traffic is one reason people on  this 
list need to get over the historic perception that a customer network is a single flat subnet. Allocating space on that 
assumption simply perpetuates the problems that come along with it. There is no technical reason to allocate anything 
longer than a /48, but for those that insist on doing so, please, please, please, don't go longer than a /56. Even a 
phone is a router that happens to have a voice app built in, so mobile providers need to stop the assumption that "it 
only needs a single subnet". 

Tony


> CB
>
>
> > On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 6:35 PM, Elvis Daniel Velea <elvis () velea eu
> > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >
> > > apparently, all they see is 3 people complaining on this mailing list..
> > > well, this makes it 4 with me (and I have a bunch of people in
> > > various countries complaining on facebook that they have been banned
> > > from using netflix because they use an HE tunnel.
> > >
> > > their answer - TURN IPV6 OFF!!! you're a techie so if you know how
> > > to setup a tunnel, you must know how to redirect netflix to use IPv4
> only...
> > > really?
> > > the answer just pisses me off!
> > >
> > > Netflix, YOU are the ones forcing people to turn IPv4 off... this is
> > > just insane. tens (if not hundred) of thousands of people chose to
> > > use HE tunnels because their ISP does not offer IPv6..
> > > do you really expect all of them to turn it off? do you really want
> > > IPv6 usage in the world to go down by a few percent because you are
> > > unable to figure out how to serve content?
> > >
> > > I know nobody at Netflix will even answer to the e-mails on this list..
> > > but I hope that they will at least acknowledge the problem and
> > > figure an other way to block content by country.
> > > ie: they could try to talk to HE to register each tunnel in a
> > > database that points to the country of the user..
> > >
> > > cheers,
> > > elvis
> > >
> > >
> > > On 6/8/16 1:01 AM, chris wrote:
> > >
> > > > I am also in the same boat with a whole subnet affected even
> > > > without a tunnel, tried multiple netflix support channels starting
> > > > in early march and the ranges is still blocked 3 months later.
> > > >
> > > > I was a big fan of the service and somewhat of an addict up till
> > > > this
> > but
> > > > I've really been shocked how this has been (mis)handled
> > > >
> > > > chris
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 7:23 AM, Davide Davini <diotonante () gmail com
> > <javascript:;>>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Today I discovered Netflix flagged my IPv6 IP block as "proxy/VPN"
> > > > and I
> > > > > can't use it if I don't disable the HE tunnel, which is the only
> > > > > way
> > for
> > > > > me to have IPv6 at the moment.
> > > > >
> > > > > But the fun part has been Netflix tech support:
> > > > > "Oh I see, yeah we have been receiving reports of some other
> > > > > members with ipv6 having this issues, at the moment Netflix is not
> > > > > really designed to work with ipv6 connections, in this case I can
> > > > > recommend
> > you
> > > > > two things, one is to turn off the ipv6 and the other one will be
> > > > > to contact directly with Hurricane Electric, there are some
> > > > > customers that were able to use Netflix with an ipv6 under some
> > > > > specific settings set by Hurricane Electric."
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't obviously expect HE to fix it, I don't pay for shit, it's
> > > > > a
> > free
> > > > > service, why should they?
> > > > >
> > > > > But it's fun to know that " Netflix is not really designed to work
> > > > > with
> > > > > ipv6 connections ".
> > > > >
> > > > > Who did it say on this ML that the best way to solve these issues
> > > > > is Netflix tech support? :)
> > > > >
> > > > > Ciao,
> > > > > Davide Davini