Re: in defense of lisp (was: Anybody can participate in the IETF)

[Randy Bush <randy () psg com>]

> > i will not dispute this, not my point.  but i have to respect dino and
> > the lisp fanboys (and, yes, they are all boys) for actually *doing*
> > something after 30 years of loc/id blah blah blah (as did hip).  putting
> > their, well dino's, code where their mouths were and going way out on a
> > limb.

[ i have been correctly reminded that dino is far from the only lisp
  hacker these days, e.g. http://www.openlisp.org/ being notable. ]

> Understood. But watch for similarities between 6to4 and LISP. Both are
> clever, both have great intentions, both are extremely dangerous once
> people start thinking this is anything beyond a toy.

again, i will not dispute this.  it is not my point.

> And when lowly plebeians like myself hear that research folks at iij
> and Facebook are doing "something" with LISP, we think that is a
> blessing of this technology.

when you hear that research folk are doing something, the best guess
would be that it's research. :)

> But, after the "fan boy" chatter dies down, you hear that this is not
> actually support, it's just engineers doing "Dino" a favor.

not exactly.  someone i respect is doing some r&d.  we do r&d.  we all
help each other.  vendors are kind enough to loan kit to researchers.
this does not mean they endorse all of our r&ds projects, just that they
endorse and help r&d.  our job is to make the internet a better place.

on the ops side, when things break, isps all help each other, loan line
cards, do remote hands, etc., whether our marketing departments compete
or not.  our job is to keep the internet running well.

> I fear that at its worst and most successful, LISP ensures ipv4 is the
> backbone transport media to the detriment of ipv6 and at its best, it
> is a distraction for folks that need to be making ipv6 work, for real.

i suspect that a number of lisp proponents are of that mind.  i do not
think it does a service to the internet.

> PS. I think the research guys should give more time to ILNP

looks interesting but i am unaware of a public code base or research
testbed.  whack me with a clue bat.

randy