Full Disclosure mailing list archives
Re: Professional Groups
From: Ron DuFresne <dufresne () winternet com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:20:06 -0600 (CST)
the "buy american" ideal/ordeal<?> was a thing of the 70's <1970's>, and most likely fails in a situation whence wal mart is making busloads of cash, in a weak economy,pushing products for the most part mace in china. Thanks., Ron DuFresne On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Matt Burnett wrote:
Forgot to include this in my previous post. I am personally wondering if thoses tech jobs going overseas will come back. Im not sure if it has been discussed on this list, but what about the quality of the software written overseas? We all know that American made software typically has a few security issues, but what of software made overseas? Are we going to see exploits come out on a obsecene basis. Could this result in jobs coming back to the US? Also we have seen a few jobs come back, take Dell's Enterprise Tech Support as a example, tons of people with money complained to Dell and now we have a few more jobs back. What if we all started to complain about the quality of products (even if there isn't a problem), and threaten to switch vendors? On 1/12/04 2:31 PM, "Daniel Sichel" <daniels () Ponderosatel com> wrote:It's time we as a professional group start talking and walking like adults (at least more than in the past), I think. Just playing with computers is fine, but not enough.Agreed. And believe me, I have spent many an hour trying to figure outhow to approach the problem. Unfortunately, every solution I can come up with involves educating the masses . . . many of whom don't want to be confused with facts . . . ;>This is off topic but I couldn't help myself. What we need is a union. Why? Well right now, management generally buys the software that has the cutest infobabes, the best promise, or safe branding (Microsoft). If we had a union that negotiated a contract that paid us extra for fixing software failures or broken installs, so that the bottom line got hurt by the crap these people sell, it would take about 5 minutes for the priorities to change in purchasing decisions and for SLAs and tech support to be ratcheted up where they belong. Speaking as a US citizen, if we were Teamsters and honored their picket lines think of the leverage we would have. Scab truck drivers are available, but imagine the chaos of scab sys admins or firewall administrators? And of course when the Teamsters honor our picket lines, that wouldn't hurt a bit. Be nice to keep our jobs from going to third world countries where tech professionals are even more exploited than here. But of course, all my technical professional colleagues will pooh-pooh the idea of a union. They always do. Think about this, a union for us could be like the bar associatio for lawyers or the AMA for doctors. We could impose stringent professional abilities, certifications, and requirements to ensure we are a professional, capable body of people. We could institute apprenticeships so we have a supply of people who are more than paper MCSEs or CCNAs. I am very fortunate that I work in an enlightened company that pays more than lip service to standards and security. Management totally backs us up on secure and safe computing. No IM, no HTML mail, no user installed software. A budget for security and training. It is wonderfule. It is also the first employer in my 15 years of IT experience that follows through on these things. But I remember the pain and anguish from before. If we are going to change our industry so that we can succeed at our jobs, we need a union. Period. Dan Sichel, Network Engineer Ponderosa Telephone Company (559) 868-6367 _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html"The ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) is the most dangerous organization in the world." Bill O'Reilly on Fox News during the "No Spin Zone" on January 10th 2004 _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
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Current thread:
- Professional Groups Daniel Sichel (Jan 12)
- Re: Professional Groups Matt Burnett (Jan 12)
- Re: Professional Groups Ron DuFresne (Jan 12)
- Re: Professional Groups Gwendolynn ferch Elydyr (Jan 12)
- Re: Professional Groups Bart . Lansing (Jan 12)
- Re: Professional Groups Ka (Jan 12)
- Re: Professional Groups Lan Guy (Jan 13)
- <Possible follow-ups>
- Re: Professional Groups Matt Burnett (Jan 12)
- RE: Professional Groups Schmehl, Paul L (Jan 12)
- RE: Professional Groups Kenton Smith (Jan 12)
- Re: Professional Groups bart2k (Jan 13)
- Re: Professional Groups Ron DuFresne (Jan 13)
- RE: Professional Groups Richard Gadsden (Jan 13)
(Thread continues...)
- Re: Professional Groups Matt Burnett (Jan 12)