IDS mailing list archives
Re: How to choose an IDS/FW MSS provider
From: Mark Teicher <mht3 () earthlink net>
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 07:32:34 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Again, most people compare IDS/IPS vendor for the number of signatures they have in the product and the ability to add them on their own. Great stuff, interesting, but some IDS/IPS vendors do more than just pattern matching. This reply is to re-ignite the argument between pattern matching and protocol decodes. But how many SubSeven signatures does one really need? If I observe a SubSeven attack, it is nice to see the granularity, but the difference in the pattern is very little, essentially it is a SubSeven attack, whether it is real or not, that is for the person to determine, etc. Whether or not a IDS vendor provides the ability to add signatures is irrelevant, some products have the ability to detect unknowns before there is an update to the product. Some customers get the warm and fuzzies when they can see "CODE RED" or "SASSER" in their reports, but that doesn't improve the product any better. What really is needed in most of the products out there, is the ability to query data without learning the ins and outs of SQL queries or futzing with Oracle Client to extract the data that is meaningful. -----Original Message----- From: "David W. Goodrum" <dgoodrum () nfr com> Sent: Mar 12, 2005 8:54 AM To: Jeff Boggie <jeff.boggie () comcast net> Cc: "'Brady, Rick'" <Rick.Brady () LibertyMutual com>, "'Melih Kirkgöz (Koç.net)'" <melihk () koc net>, 'Stephane' <stephane.d () ecologie net>, focus-ids () securityfocus com Subject: Re: How to choose an IDS/FW MSS provider I think it's interesting how this is an unwinnable argument for any vendor. At NFR our signatures are openly readable by our customers, but we've heard the exact opposite argument of what you are presenting here: "A potential hacker can read how the signatures work, and use that information to try to evade the IDS". So, if we appeased them, we'd close our signature base, and then we'd be hearing it from the other side of the house. This is a no-win situation for the vendor. We've tried to appease both sides by not having our sigs "publicly" available, but all a really determined hacker has to do is buy our product to read the signatures. So, before you ask ISS to release their codebase for their signature set, you might want to think about what the full consequences of that would be. Snort has had 2 or 3 remote exploits. The only reason this was possible is because their entire product is totally open to the world. I doubt ISS wants to open themselves up to that type of publicity. :) -dave Jeff Boggie wrote:
No, the lack of visibility into ISS signature content is a major bone of contention in my shop. -----Original Message----- From: Brady, Rick [mailto:Rick.Brady () LibertyMutual com] Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 5:08 PM To: Melih Kirkgöz (Koç.net); Stephane; focus-ids () securityfocus com Subject: RE: How to choose an IDS/FW MSS provider Melih, I guess you must be special to ISS, from my experience the support has been sub-par. Also do you like the idea that ISS IDS signatures are not known to the customer and only ISS ? Rick Brady Liberty Mutual Group I/S TSSS Engineering Network Access Control mailto:rick.brady () libertymutual com (603) 245-4214 8-435-4214sdn -----Original Message----- From: Melih Kirkgöz (Koç.net) [mailto:melihk () koc net] Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 2:22 AM To: Stephane; focus-ids () securityfocus com Subject: RE: How to choose an IDS/FW MSS provider Importance: High Hello Stephane, We have been using ISS since last two years.(50 Server Sensor,15 Network Sensor,1 Proventia G 100 IPS),managed by SiteProtector. We tested Netscreen,ISS,Radware,NAI Intrushield and Checkpoint during our evaluation period for intrusion detection/prevention systems. Strong level of expertise and good technical support was one of the big reasons choosing ISS. -----Original Message----- From: Stephane [mailto:stephane.d () ecologie net] Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 12:42 PM To: focus-ids () securityfocus com Subject: How to choose an IDS/FW MSS provider Dear All, How do I choose an IDS/IPS provider if I need a strong level of expertise 24x7x365 and a worldwide representaion? I need it on Netscreen, PIX, CheckPoint and ISS Realsecure and Proventia. Thank you, S. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Test Your IDS Is your IDS deployed correctly? Find out quickly and easily by testing it with real-world attacks from CORE IMPACT. Go to http://www.securityfocus.com/sponsor/CoreSecurity_focus-ids_040708 to learn more. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ____________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ Bu e-posta mesaji kisiye ozel olup, gizli bilgiler iceriyor olabilir. Eger bu e-posta mesaji size yanlislikla ulasmissa, icerigini hic bir sekilde kullanmayiniz ve ekli dosyalari acmayiniz. Bu durumda lutfen e-posta mesajini kullaniciya hemen geri gonderiniz ve tum kopyalarini mesaj kutunuzdan siliniz. Bu e-posta mesaji, hic bir sekilde, herhangi bir amac icin cogaltilamaz, yayinlanamaz ve para karsiligi satilamaz. Bu e-posta mesaji viruslere karsi anti-virus sistemleri tarafindan taranmistir. Ancak yollayici, bu e-posta mesajinin - virus koruma sistemleri ile kontrol ediliyor olsa bile - virus icermedigini garanti etmez ve meydana gelebilecek zararlardan dogacak hicbir sorumlulugu kabul etmez. This message is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed , and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this message or you receive this mail in error, you should refrain from making any use of the contents and from opening any attachment. In that case, please notify the sender immediately and return the message to the sender, then, delete and destroy all copies. This e-mail message, can not be copied, published or sold for any reason. This e-mail message has been swept by anti-virus systems for the presence of computer viruses. In doing so, however, sender cannot warrant that virus or other forms of data corruption may not be present and do not take any responsibility in any occurrence. ____________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Test Your IDS Is your IDS deployed correctly? Find out quickly and easily by testing it with real-world attacks from CORE IMPACT. Go to http://www.securityfocus.com/sponsor/CoreSecurity_focus-ids_040708 to learn more. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Test Your IDS Is your IDS deployed correctly? Find out quickly and easily by testing it with real-world attacks from CORE IMPACT. Go to http://www.securityfocus.com/sponsor/CoreSecurity_focus-ids_040708 to learn more. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Test Your IDS Is your IDS deployed correctly? Find out quickly and easily by testing it with real-world attacks from CORE IMPACT. Go to http://www.securityfocus.com/sponsor/CoreSecurity_focus-ids_040708 to learn more. --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- David W. Goodrum Senior Systems Engineer NFR Security 703.731.3765 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Test Your IDS Is your IDS deployed correctly? Find out quickly and easily by testing it with real-world attacks from CORE IMPACT. Go to http://www.securityfocus.com/sponsor/CoreSecurity_focus-ids_040708 to learn more. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Test Your IDS Is your IDS deployed correctly? Find out quickly and easily by testing it with real-world attacks from CORE IMPACT. Go to http://www.securityfocus.com/sponsor/CoreSecurity_focus-ids_040708 to learn more. --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Current thread:
- Re: How to choose an IDS/FW MSS provider, (continued)
- Re: How to choose an IDS/FW MSS provider Mark Teicher (Mar 11)
- RE: How to choose an IDS/FW MSS provider Andrew Plato (Mar 14)
- Re: How to choose an IDS/FW MSS provider fuijdancer (Mar 14)
- Re: How to choose an IDS/FW MSS provider Stephane (Mar 16)
- Re: How to choose an IDS/FW MSS provider Peter Schawacker (Mar 14)
- Re: How to choose an IDS/FW MSS provider Kevin (Mar 14)
- Re: How to choose an IDS/FW MSS provider Will Metcalf (Mar 16)
- RE: How to choose an IDS/FW MSS provider Dahl-Hansen, Kjetil (Mar 16)
- RE: How to choose an IDS/FW MSS provider Joshua Berry (Mar 16)
- Re: How to choose an IDS/FW MSS provider Peter Schawacker (Mar 16)
- Re: How to choose an IDS/FW MSS provider Mark Teicher (Mar 16)
- Re: How to choose an IDS/FW MSS provider David W. Goodrum (Mar 19)
- RE: How to choose an IDS/FW MSS provider Palmer, Paul (ISSAtlanta) (Mar 16)
- RE: How to choose an IDS/FW MSS provider THolman (Mar 16)
- Re: How to choose an IDS/FW MSS provider Sasser (Mar 19)
- Re: How to choose an IDS/FW MSS provider Mark Teicher (Mar 16)
- RE: How to choose an IDS/FW MSS provider THolman (Mar 16)
- RE: How to choose an IDS/FW MSS provider Andrew Plato (Mar 16)
- Re: How to choose an IDS/FW MSS provider Andre Ludwig (Mar 19)
- Re: How to choose an IDS/FW MSS provider Prashant Khandelwal (Mar 24)
- Re: How to choose an IDS/FW MSS provider Andre Ludwig (Mar 19)
- Re: How to choose an IDS/FW MSS provider Adam Powers (Mar 19)
(Thread continues...)