RE: Hackers and Painters

[Richard Thieme <rthieme () thiemeworks com>]

hmm... the question I would ask is whether or not it is possible to do robust coding without being obsessive compulsive?

I mean, I have been writing since I was 13 ... I think a lot of artists, once you in the flow, in the zone, go on 
marathon sessions. Once you're there you don't want to stop because it is so self-nurturing, i.e. the positive feedback 
loops keep ramping up. It short-circuits lesser needs and pleasures including eating.

that's not an addiciton tho. an addiction tho is an obesssive attachment to something that delivers less and less, not 
more and more, the more you use it or do it. Alcoholics need more and more alcohol  because of tolerance. But coders 
don't need more and more coding sessions, not in that way, right?

Lots of things can become obsessive but that doesn't seem to address the intrinsic value of what one's doing. Coding it 
seems to me is a creative activity and therefore can have lots of things in common with other creative activities. And 
it can be obsessive which gives it things in common with anything that is obsessive. But the essence of it is not the 
obessivness ... is it? It's more the crativity and the incredible pleasure that comes when that part of the brain is 
functioning at peak?

I think it's like the state of "flow" that guy at the U of Chicago described in his book as the self-forgetting 
activity in which you become immersed and he found it characterized architects, rock climbers, whatever. When you blend 
with the output of your brimming brain and lose yourself in the activity and find it the most fulfilling thing in the 
world at the same time. 

I mean, I *know* when that part of the brian is engaged, and I never want it to stop. Maybe it's the mouse pushing the 
pleasure-center button again and again after all, I don't know ...

RT

At 12:58 AM 9/22/2004 -0700, you wrote:
> heh. that's the best description I've ever heard of it. How
> else can you explain 18-hour coding sessions where you don't eat
> (except for anti-inflamatories) or drink because that would 
> require typing slower and you put off going to the bathroom 
> because it's distracting and taking time.
> And continuing to do this when it is causing more and more damage
> to the nerves in your hands and forearms...
>
> And those are only the short binges, not the truly marathon ones
> that I know many of you have the luxury of doing. (36 hours straight
> is only feasible if you don't need to take children to school or
> feed them/care for them.) 
>
> :)
> Does that mean that when we encourage someone to learn to program,
> we are pushing them to gain a new addiction?
>
> t
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: dailydave-bounces () lists immunitysec com 
> > [mailto:dailydave-bounces () lists immunitysec com] On Behalf Of Adam
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 12:08 AM
> > To: dailydave () lists immunitysec com
> > Subject: Re: [Dailydave] Hackers and Painters
> >
> > Halvar Flake wrote:
> >
> > > I don't care if code is art. I don't care if code is math. I 
> > like code,
> > > and I like to code. Can't we just settle for "coders" instead of 
> > > "artists", "makers", "scientists" or whatever else ?
> >
> > I feel a lot of people see it that way. Coding is that 
> > unending urge in life
> > that you have no control over. Just like a drug that you don't 
> > want to stop or
> > can't stop.
> >
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