Re: Defining scope of web application pentest (now scope of an annual medical exam)

["Andy Steingruebl" <steingra () gmail com>]

On Dec 9, 2007 5:36 AM, Clement Dupuis <cdupuis () cccure org> wrote:
> Hum.....  It amazes me that one would offer a service call ETHICAL hacking
> and ask such a question as the one posted.  Unfortunately it seems to happen
> too many times and all the times.  If we wish to be recognize as
> professional one day this has to change for sure.  Let me twist the original
> posting a bit and pretend you're doing your annual medical exam and your
> doctor would post the following on a medical mailing list that you subscribe
> to:
>
> ============== Beginning of twisted message =================
> From: listbounce () securityfocus com [mailto:listbounce () securityfocus com] On
> Behalf Of a Crazy Doctor
> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 12:48 PM
> To: webappsec () securityfocus com
> Subject: Defining scope of an Annual medical exam
>
> Hi,
>
> Can anyone please tell what needs to be considered while defining the scope
> of an annual medical exam. Here I am concerned only about the cholesterol
> level and heart beat that would exclude every other bit related to the
> infrastructure (such as any other vital parts, diabetes, or the overall
> body). Also how do we calculate the effort required to perform an annual
> medical exam. The things which I think may be considered are the age of the
> patient, past history, etc.
> But what else can be considered?
>
> Any inputs would be highly appreciated.
>
> Cheers
>
> Crazy Doctor
> ============= End of Twisted message ==========================
>
> WOULD YOU ACCEPT AND USE SERVICE FROM SUCH A DOCTOR?
>
> Why is this acceptable in the Security Testing profession and why do we see
> this all the time?
>
> I think before you offer service to clients you have to build the service
> first.
>
> Hopefully the security testing world will mature quickly over time if we
> wish to even attempt to call ourselves PROFESSIONALS.
>
> Best regards
>
> Clement


While I do see your point - medical practice isn't necessarily the
thing you'd want to pick here.  Medical practices differ greatly
across even industrialized countries.  What tests are considered
routine, how often they should be administered, at what age, etc.
What variances are acceptable and at what point do we call in other
diagnostics that cost more, etc.  These are topics that are actively
debated in the medical community as well.

A better example would be:

 - Can someone tell me what should be done at a 30,000 mile checkup
for a 2006 Ford Focus?

Sure, we can pull out Ford's manual and tell you exactly.

Not sure you'll find a lot of other areas that are quite as cut and
dried.  I'm not arguing that we couldn't get better at it, but you
might want to pick a better example because medicine isn't nearly as
cut and dried as you'd make it appear.

- Andy

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