RE: CEH training

["Zuromski, Brian" <brzurom () tycho ncsc mil>]

   I actually attended a CEH workshop.  Although it was only a sales pitch
into what the class would be about we actually got to keep the class book.
It doesn't really teach the theory in hacking....although they have a short
section on what is a hacker and what keeps someone 'ethical'.  Then they
proceed to show you how to use 5000 different WINDOZE apps that constitute
hacking into networks and systems 'ethically' of course.  I just thought it
was more for windows people who are curious and want to know how to
enumerate targets. (IMHO it is just information you could get elsewhere) I
thought it was too dependant on tools, and not strong on actually how to
collect information manually. If they would introduce linux into the class
then I would absolutely get the CEH cert as everyone knows most windows
tools are based off of $nix tools that have been around and you have to know
what your doing when you use the $nix tools forcing more theory and know how
into the class that could help people understand across the board.....
    I will say this, the instructor who did this (Don), was extremely
knowledgeable and knows the unix/windoze/network side of things, so if you
get a good instructor it might pay off on the way the apps are working to
collect information and enumerate targets....and that is what you need to be
a pen-tester!



-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Zaluski [mailto:rzaluski () ivolution ca]
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 7:33 PM
To: glemmon () onealwebster com; pen-test () securityfocus com
Subject: RE: CEH training


The issue we find with these courses is that they tend to be encyclopedic in
nature.  They teach you how to 'hack a box' rather then provide you with the
skills a professional security tester needs.  

iVOLUTION currently has two Penetration Courses that we teach at IBM, its
security staff and worldwide partners. Our classes are based upon the skills
you need to become an efficient and resourceful security professional

There are a few good courses out there that deal with Penetration Testing,
not just ours. I would look for classes that deal specifically with Pen
Testing rather than 'hacking' 

There is much more to being a pen tester than hacking. It's knowing the
tools, techniques, methodologies and resources as well as understanding how
to research exploits and properly assess networks and target systems. This
is in conjunction with understanding the legalisms associated with testing
that varies greatly in different countries, states, provinces and regions.

As for online courses of this nature, I have not seen one as yet but I do
understand time is an issue in your case.

Regards, 

Richard Zaluski
CISO, Security and Infrastructure Services 
iVOLUTION  Technologies Incorporated
905.309.1911
866.601.4678
www.ivolution.ca
rzaluski () ivolution ca
 

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-----Original Message-----
From: glemmon () onealwebster com [mailto:glemmon () onealwebster com] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 2:35 PM
To: pen-test () securityfocus com
Subject: CEH training

Hi all,

I am looking at getting some training to start my official journey down =
the path as a Security Penetration Tester - and was wondering about the =
views on taking the Intense School's CEH boot Camp. Has anyone on/from the
list attended their course and have and feedback/recommendations? My =
background is predominantly Windows, but I am fairly functional with Linux.
I am more interested in online courses right now though only because I am =
currently involved in some projects that require me to be available for my
office = over the next couple of months. Any constructive feedback is more
than = welcome.
Thanks


Gregory Lemmon, MCP, Security+
I.T. Manager