Penetration Testing mailing list archives
EC-Counsil
From: Martin Wasson <marto () fightingillini com>
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 09:37:20 -0700 (PDT)
Don makes some good points here, and I'd just like to add a few things. I took the CEH course at the InfoSec Institute in Chicago. The class was extremely well done. The target servers, the network, and the attack machines outstanding, and performed as I had hoped. The instructor, Jack Koziol, was absolutely top-drawer. But here's my warning, this course is (for the most part) for complete beginners. But beginners in the arena of pen testing, not TCP/IP, nor Linux. What struck me about the class was the fact that most of the participants had completely ignored the list of prerequisites. Most had never even seen a Linux box, and had no idea how to even change directories. Accepting this as a premise, you can imagine their complete lack of any TCP/IP knowledge. So if you don't know what a SYN flag is, spend your money on TCP/IP Illustrated Vol. I, and don't waste your time and money on a hacking class. No one can teach you to be a hacker. You learn the protocols, and then you start thinking like one. That notwithstanding, if URG-PSH-FIN means something to you, and you don't need why/when/how to use NMAP explained to you, Don is spot on...learn to use the basic tools yourself and look into the advanced class when you're ready. I'd like to add the disclaimer that I have no affiliation whatsoever with the InfoSec Institute other than my company paid for me to take their class. Like Don said, there are good guys out there with valuable training, and there are tons of bad guys who will take your money and teach you nothing. Koziol is one of the good guys, and it was apparent to me that a great deal of thought and effort went into the design and execution of his class. That's my $.02. Best regards and many thanks to all who contribute. We get so much from guys like fyodor, rfp, Dragorn, shmoo group, Renaud Deraison, David Litchfield, Solar Designer, Dug Song, and a hundred others I'm forgetting (sorry, but everyone has their favorites), it's cool to see so many people giving back. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Not to beat this topic to death again but my two cents worth are as follows; You are far better off taking some time to learn how all of the tools work in your own home lab. This gives you the luxury of time to play with them, and will save you a bundle of money to boot. The security industry is already rife with certfication bodies, and all are not created equal. To be honest you would be best off going with an established cert such as the CISSP, or one of the GIAC ones for that matter. Cert recognition by the HR dept can be pivotal in your getting a job. Also with most of these types of "learn how to hack" courses there is, or should be a healthy list of prerequisite skills ie: knowledge of certain tools, tcp/ip, programming concepts.... What some or most of these courses teach is how to formalize your approach to a pen-test. That can also be learned though a book vice paying a large sum of money to learn what I would consider the obvious. To sum up what I would advise people to do is simply learn on your own. That is after all one of the greatest assets of the hacker is it not? Self motivation and tenacity coupled with curiousity will go a long way in helping you down the road to getting into the computer security field. Cheers, Don ------------------------------------------ Don Parker, GCIA Intrusion Detection Specialist 1.613.302.2910(c) ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ethical Hacking at the InfoSec Institute. All of our class sizes are guaranteed to be 12 students or less to facilitate one-on-one interaction with one of our expert instructors. Check out our Advanced Hacking course, learn to write exploits and attack security infrastructure. Attend a course taught by an expert instructor with years of in-the-field pen testing experience in our state of the art hacking lab. Master the skills of an Ethical Hacker to better assess the security of your organization. http://www.infosecinstitute.com/courses/ethical_hacking_training.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Current thread:
- EC-Counsil Chris Griffin (Aug 24)
- Re: EC-Counsil robert (Aug 25)
- Re: EC-Counsil Al Smolkin (Aug 25)
- RE: EC-Counsil Clement Dupuis (Aug 25)
- Re: EC-Counsil Andy Cuff (Aug 27)
- <Possible follow-ups>
- RE: EC-Counsil Hadi H. Jaafarawi (Aug 26)
- Re: EC-Counsil Don Parker (Aug 27)
- EC-Counsil Martin Wasson (Aug 28)
- RE: EC-Counsil randori . (Aug 29)
- Re: EC-Counsil Wayne M Burke (Aug 29)
- Re: EC-Counsil (Book Review) Can we wrap this thread up? Andy Cuff (Aug 30)
- Hacker Highschool Pete Herzog (Aug 30)
- Re: EC-Counsil Wayne M Burke (Aug 29)