Fwd: Looking for a little help

[mick at pauldotcom.com (Michael Douglas)]

Disclaimer: I'm not a SANS instructor but I do play as a junior one at
community events.  As such, I don't have much of an insider's view on
this cert...

Here's my take on this:
The GSE is the uber cert.  It's meant to be like the CCIE is... for
someone who wants to remain deeply technical and earn the very top
salary in our industry this is the way to go.  All the postings I see
where GSE is even mentioned are stone cold NINJA level.

The current GSE reqs are here:
http://www.giac.org/certifications/gse.php#prereq

As for why more/all SANS instructors don't have it?  My guess (and
this is only a guess) is that they don't need it... if it's not needed
they'll spend the time/effort instead on teaching classes -- which is
probably in SANS overall better interest. (Heck it's in our industry's
interest too... I'd rather see several hundereds of people get better
at infosec than just a handful of ninjas made.  True it's not an
either/or choice, but humor me OK?)  Also I'd be interested to see how
GIAC/SANS would address conflict of interest issues...  It might make
it a little fishy if a super majority of the cert holders are
"internal" to the organization.

Finally, market forces being what they are, I think the case for the
GSE is such that it isn't for everyone.  If you're highly motivated,
have some talent, and want to make serious coin, the GSE is for you.
True the GSE is costly to get, but you can shave the monetary expense
greatly by TA'ing the classes you need.  The true costs I see are
time... and it is a significant investment... but the payoffs (at
least from where I'm sitting) appear to be quite nice indeed.

At some point a few years out, I might go for the GSE... I know I want
to get other GIAC certs.  I guess the biggest thing I don't get is
that in light of all the pros for this cert that more folks don't
attempt it.  Yes it's hard to get... but that's by design.  We do not
value that which is easily obtained (don't know if I'm quoting someone
or not)

My take on this distilled all the way down is this:  If you're on the
fence about the GSE, freaking do it already.  If you're at a point
where you can consider grasping the brass ring, why would you not?

<end of ramble>

- Mick




On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Chris Clymer <cclymer at gmail.com> wrote:
> Problem for me is that the GSE is f'ing expensive, i dont believe the certs
> i have count in more than a minor way (GPEN & GWAPT) and ive never seen it
> on a job app.
> Great accomplishment if you can swing it, but i question the ROI. ?As far as
> i can tell most SANS instructors dont even have it.
> I was on the email chain about revising GSE requirements, and i still cant
> tell what i would need to do to get it. As a SANS instructor, is it any more
> clear to you?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> On Feb 9, 2010, at 8:23 AM, John Strand <strandjs at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This is odd....? Chris wants to take the GSE exam and needs to have some
> more people sign up or the test is going to get canceled.
>
> Well, the challenge is out.? Get out and and sign up for the GSE.
>
> Look, I am one of the first people to say that many tech certifications in
> and of themselves mean little.? However, in many situations they are
> required to get and maintain the job you want...? When you look at many of
> the cool jobs in security they are asking for SANS certs... Why? Because
> they mean something.
>
> This one means even more. This industry needs to have a cert where if
> someone has it we can say with a high degree of certainty that they know
> what the hell they are talking about on a wide variety of topics in
> security. GSE is that cert.
>
> I also know that many of you collect SANS certs like Pokymon cards...? GSE
> is a nice cap.
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Chris Mohan <christopher.mohan at gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 3:48 AM
> Subject: Looking for a little help
> To: strandjs at gmail.com, jstrand at sans.org
>
>
> Hello John,
>
> I'm after a little bit, well possibility a lot, of help from you.
>
> I've decided attempt the GSE exam this year. That's not the problem,
> although a touch of insanity and delusion on my part perhaps. ?The problem
> is that only one other person has also signed up, despite GIAC changing the
> requirements.
>
> The bit of help I'm after is for you and the folks at Pauldotcom to put out
> the challenge to other saner folk to step up with me and get on to the GSE
> track.
>
> If an English bloke, living in Australia that works with Windows - and the
> fully featured firewall that is ISA - can try for the GSE, then I'd hope for
> at least five of your ex-students or PDC listeners to take that step with
> me.
>
> There seems to be a massive fear factor about the GSE exams, so I've started
> off a blog, witty entitled http://gse.chris-mohan.com to chart my attempt
> and break down some of that GSE FUD.
>
> As Paul and Larry first put me on the path to SANS training, back in
> December of 2005, it would be a neat twist of fate if they could help out by
> getting me some brilliant people to be part of the final two day practical
> exam.
>
> I'd love to be in the room in Las Vegas working with some great minds to
> nail the last day's challenge. You and the guys either know or can reach
> these people and can inspire them to give it a try.
>
> To quote a chick with bagels on her head "This is our most desperate hour.
> Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi; you're my only hope"
>
> A desperate, somewhat over-dramatic plea from the Sunny shores of Sydney
>
> Chris
>
>
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