RE: C++ Development

["Jay Freeman \(saurik\)" <saurik () saurik com>]

I would like to cleanly and flatly state right now that you are quoting
Etaoin and putting my name on it, and I seriously hate that.  Everything you
quoted was written by Etaoin, and then you stuck my name on the top.  Please
be more careful about that.

BTW, about that "can't link to C" argument, I actually have a complaint
against that one that I didn't think of when I decided to agree with Fyoder.

I have a stock build of Apache, which is written in C.  I wrote an Apache
module in C++ and had no problems getting it to work with Apache.  Just
because the external interface is a few functions doesn't mean any of the
internals can't be in C++.

Although that may be because my compiler was just smarter than most, so I am
still going to cede that nmap should continue forward in C, and I'm even
going to extend that to nmap+V.

(I really just needed something to say to give some meat to this "hey, watch
it there" e-mail message, and this is all I could come up with :).)

Sincerely,
Jay Freeman (saurik)
saurik () saurik com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stou Sandalski [mailto:tangui () cell2000 net]
> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2000 11:36 PM
> To: Etaoin Shrdlu; Nmap-Dev
> Subject: RE: C++ Development
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: shrdlu () cnchost com [mailto:shrdlu () cnchost com]On Behalf Of Etaoin
> > Shrdlu
> > Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2000 20:00
> > To: Nmap-Dev
> > Subject: Re: C++ Development
> >
> >
> > "Jay Freeman (saurik)" wrote:
> <snip>
> > Not everyone is a fan of C++. I consider it to be a garbage language,
> > although I liked it (and used it) in some of its earlier incarnations.
> > It is not as though it is a separate language from C, but is rather
> > quite dependent on it. Much of the claimed improvements from such things
> > as STL are just that: claims. When I compare similar code written in C++
> > and C at the assembler or machine code level, the C++ is less efficient.
> > With a tool such as nmap, efficiency counts.
> >
> > If this were a large "software engineering" project, requiring multiple
> > bodies, and design experts, and all that other claptrap from the 70s and
> > 80s, something like C++ helps to keep everyone in the same camp, on the
> > same road, and singing the same tune. It occupies the place that Ada had
> > been expected to, and doesn't do too bad a job of it.
>
> I am sorry, but it is sort of ridiculous if not stupid to state "C++ is a
> garbage language" or infact to say any language is a garbage language... I
> haven't even looked at the nmap source code (I guess I've always
> been afraid
> that I wouldn't understand it), I have 0 CS degrees ( I haven't
> even taken a
> class in CS), and I am only 19 with a cellular-bio major so I
> really have no
> place to speak... however it annoys me greatly to see such strong
> statements... if you would say VB or C# is a garbage lang. I
> would actually
> agree, but that would be wrong... because every lang was developed with a
> purpose... if it serves its purpose that's great! if it doesn't then its
> garbage... C++ is a great OOP lang, that tries to give you the
> efficiency of
> a low level lang, with the abstraction and OOness of a high level lang.  I
> see Fyodors point for not using C++, and that's cool because he
> is concerned
> with linking to different libraries... symbols, and the unavailability (is
> that even a word?) of [good]C++ compilers on all the platforms nmap can be
> compiled if its in C, I didn't see him mention speed so I doubt
> that's a big
> factor... true C++ has overhead and does not belong in things
> like kernels,
> firmware, embeded systems and low level device drivers... but for
> a "normal"
> application it provides many many things that outweigh the small
> overhead it
> can generate
>
> Anyway I think C++ has its uses and will for a long time... just
> like C and
> assembly will... trying to prove that its a garbage language is about as
> stupid as trying to prove Linux (or any other OS) is better then
> windows or
> freebsd or <insert_any_OS_here>... and claims like "C++ is a garbage
> language" are right next to sci.crypt posts stating "I've created an
> unbreakable encryption"
>
>
> Stou
>
>
> P.S.
> IMHO Since Fyodor made his point this "thread" has no place on
> the list....
>
>
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