RE: Geolocation: IPv4 Subnet blocked by HULU, and others

["Keith Medcalf" <kmedcalf () dessus com>]

Title II is not particularly relevant.  It merely permits a claim of the form "Carriage must be provided without 
discrimination to everyone who pays the fee for carriage.  I have paid the fee for carriage, but I am suffering 
discrimination in the provision of carriage as prohibited by Title II parts such and so".

In other words, it merely provides a lazy way for lazy lawyers to make lazy claims without having to think about what 
they are doing.  Since they get another new yacht whether they win or lose, it does not really matter to most of them 
if they do a bang up job or a shoddy one.  In any case, it is a stupid claim.  You are not discriminating in carriage, 
even if Title II were still in force.  You are providing non-discriminatory carriage and some other third party is 
tortuously interfering with a contract.

In any case, the entire result would turn on what you do in defense.  If you are a schmuck then you simply move for 
summary judgement on the basis that you are providing carriage and that it is another party that is fracked up, and 
you, through the goodness of your kind heart, tried to solve the issue on behalf of the complainant, to no effect.  
Then the complainant has to launch another lawsuit against the correct parties.  This could go on for quite a while 
before managing to hit the correct party -- more likely it would never get anywhere at all.

Alternatively, you could make the same defense and cross-claim against all the parties who should have been in the 
original action.

The originating claim needs to be brought against all the possible bad actors simultaneously and the claims plead 
properly.  This would require a lawyer that can think -- something very rare.  It would be somewhat expensive and 
delicate, but it would have certain success.

---
The fact that there's a Highway to Hell but only a Stairway to Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic volume.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Crapse [mailto:michael () wi-fiber io]
> Sent: Tuesday, 26 December, 2017 19:03
> To: Keith Medcalf
> Cc: nanog () nanog org
> Subject: Re: Geolocation: IPv4 Subnet blocked by HULU, and others
>
> I was being playful with the whole "law" thing.
> I doubt the users would be able to sue me due to title 2 roll backs.
> "Net Neutrality" allows ISPs to block any service they deem fit,
> right? So the first step wouldn't even get past discovery to get to
> court. Anyhow, it would be sufficiently beneficial if we just had a
> single contact within hulu. It would be even better if hulu came into
> the 21st century and supported IPv6 like any other modern service.
> For others who need this resolved for hulu, these are the subnets I
> NATed/VPNed to get it working.
> 8.28.124.0/23
> 23.0.0.0/8
>
> 184.84.0.0/14
>
> 199.60.116.0/24
> 199.127.192.0/22
> 199.200.48.0/22
> 208.91.156.0/22
> 208.98.171.96/27
>
>
> Michael
>
> On 26 December 2017 at 18:54, Keith Medcalf <kmedcalf () dessus com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>       No, because you have no cause of action known to law.  You are
> not a customer of Hulu and have no right of action.
>
>       However, your "users" could sue you for failing to provide
> proper service or perhaps otherwise cause you to suffer damages.
>
>       In the former case you could file a defense and cross-claim
> against Hulu claiming that it is their problem, and that not only are
> they responsible for the claims made against you, they are also
> liable for your costs and so on and so forth.
>
>       In the latter case where you suffer damages as a result of
> Hulu's actions (or inactions) resulting in damage to you, you could
> sue them on the basis of tortuous interference for their actions.
>
>       Of course, Hulu will simply claim that you are negligent and
> just in case file a third party claim against whomever is providing
> them with false information and thus tortuously interfering with
> their business.
>
>       Over the course of the following several years nothing will be
> done to correct the issue, your customers will abandon you and go
> elsewhere, and in the end no one will get anywhere except the lawyers
> who will now be able to afford to buy a few more yachts each.
>
>       ---
>       The fact that there's a Highway to Hell but only a Stairway to
> Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic volume.
>
>
>
>       >-----Original Message-----
>       >From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces () nanog org <mailto:nanog-
> bounces () nanog org> ] On Behalf Of Michael
>       >Crapse
>       >Sent: Tuesday, 26 December, 2017 12:42
>       >To: Sam Norris
>       >Cc: NANOG list
>       >Subject: Re: Geolocation: IPv4 Subnet blocked by HULU, and
> others
>       >
>       >I would like to know, Is there any legal recourse we can take
> against
>       >such
>       >a company consistently ignoring whitelist requests?
>       >Currently, the only way my customers can connect to hulu
> without
>       >getting a
>       >vpn error is by using a vpn. On my end, i have just started
> NATing
>       >all
>       >requests to HULU through the few good IPs that I have.
>       >
>       >On 26 December 2017 at 11:12, Sam Norris
> <Sam () sandiegobroadband com>
>       >wrote:
>       >
>       >> Anyone figure this out?  I need to get our prefixes updated
> as well
>       >as
>       >> they are
>       >> detecting our customers in the wrong city.
>       >>
>       >> Sam
>       >>
>       >>
>       >> > -----Original Message-----
>       >> > From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces () nanog org <mailto:nanog-
> bounces () nanog org> ] On Behalf Of
>       >> > lists () silverlakeinternet com
>       >> > Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2017 1:28 PM
>       >> > To: Mike Hammett
>       >> > Cc: nanog () nanog org
>       >> > Subject: Re: Geolocation: IPv4 Subnet blocked by HULU, and
> others
>       >> >
>       >> > I could use a contact for all of these as well.  I have
> been
>       >trying to
>       >> > get my subnet unblocked with all of these providers and
> have
>       >reached out
>       >> > in many ways to all of them over the past few months, but
> never
>       >get a
>       >> > response.
>       >> >
>       >> > Thank you,
>       >> > Brett A Mansfield
>       >> >
>       >> > On 2017-12-15 19:57, Mike Hammett wrote:
>       >> > > Bump for Hulu.
>       >> > >
>       >> > >
>       >> > >
>       >> > >
>       >> > > -----
>       >> > > Mike Hammett
>       >> > > Intelligent Computing Solutions
>       >> > >
>       >> > > Midwest Internet Exchange
>       >> > >
>       >> > > The Brothers WISP
>       >> > >
>       >> > > ----- Original Message -----
>       >> > >
>       >> > > From: "Michael Crapse" <michael () wi-fiber io>
>       >> > > To: nanog () nanog org
>       >> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 3:38:20 PM
>       >> > > Subject: Geolocation: IPv4 Subnet blocked by HULU, and
> others
>       >> > >
>       >> > > I am a local WISP. And my customers have trouble reaching
> Hulu,
>       >Disney
>       >> > > now,
>       >> > > and previously netflix and amazon prime(both resolved).
>       >> > > I have emailed, mailed, and called both HULU and Disney
> now to
>       >get my
>       >> > > 196.53.96.0/22 subnet unblacklisted as a VPN provider(no
> longer
>       >so)
>       >> > > from
>       >> > > their services. They have replied saying it takes 3-5
> days to
>       >resolve
>       >> > > the
>       >> > > issue, that was several weeks ago. Can i get contact from
> those
>       >two
>       >> > > services that can help my customers reach their services,
> thank
>       >you.
>       >> > >
>       >> > >
>       >> > > Thank you for the help.
>       >> > > -Michael
>       >>
>       >>