Re: Verizon Policy Statement on Net Neutrality

[Matthew Kaufman <matthew () matthew at>]

+1

Th spectral split between down and up is real, has existed for a very long time, and isn't a master of remapping.

Matthew Kaufman

(Sent from my iPhone)

> On Feb 28, 2015, at 6:15 PM, Scott Helms <khelms () zcorum com> wrote:
>
> Michael,
>
> You should really learn how DOCSIS systems work.  What you're trying to
> claim it's not only untrue it is that way for very real technical reasons.
> > On Feb 28, 2015 6:27 PM, "Michael Thomas" <mike () mtcc com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > On 02/28/2015 03:14 PM, Clayton Zekelman wrote:
> > >
> > > You do of course realize that the asymmetry in CATV forward path/return
> > > path existed LONG before residential Internet access over cable networks
> > > exited?
> >
> > The cable companies didn't want "servers" on residential customers either,
> > and were
> > animated by that. Cable didn't really have much of a return path at all at
> > first -- I remember
> > the stories of the crappy spectrum they were willing to allocate at first,
> > but as I recall
> > that was mainly because they hadn't transitioned to digital downstream and
> > their analog
> > down was pretty precious. Once they made that transition, the animus
> > against residential
> > "servers" was pretty much the only excuse -- I'm pretty sure they could
> > map up/down/cable
> > channels any way they wanted after that.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > > > On Feb 28, 2015, at 5:38 PM, Barry Shein <bzs () world std com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Can we stop the disingenuity?
> > > >
> > > > Asymmetric service was introduced to discourage home users from
> > > > deploying "commercial" services. As were bandwidth caps.
> > > >
> > > > One can argue all sorts of other "benefits" of this but when this
> > > > started that was the problem on the table: How do we forcibly
> > > > distinguish commercial (i.e., more expensive) from non-commercial
> > > > usage?
> > > >
> > > > Answer: Give them a lot less upload than download bandwidth.
> > > >
> > > > Originally these asymmetric, typically DSL, links were hundreds of
> > > > kbits upstream, not a lot more than a dial-up line.
> > > >
> > > > That and NAT thereby making it difficult -- not impossible, the savvy
> > > > were in the noise -- to map domain names to permanent IP addresses.
> > > >
> > > > That's all this was about.
> > > >
> > > > It's not about "that's all they need", "that's all they want", etc.
> > > >
> > > > Now that bandwidth is growing rapidly and asymmetric is often
> > > > 10/50mbps or 20/100 it almost seems nonsensical in that regard, entire
> > > > medium-sized ISPs ran on less than 10mbps symmetric not long ago. But
> > > > it still imposes an upper bound of sorts, along with addressing
> > > > limitations and bandwidth caps.
> > > >
> > > > That's all this is about.
> > > >
> > > > The telcos for many decades distinguished "business" voice service
> > > > from "residential" service, even for just one phone line, though they
> > > > mostly just winged it and if they declared you were defrauding them by
> > > > using a residential line for a business they might shut you off and/or
> > > > back bill you. Residential was quite a bit cheaper, most importantly
> > > > local "unlimited" (unmetered) talk was only available on residential
> > > > lines. Business lines were even coded 1MB (one m b) service, one
> > > > metered business (line).
> > > >
> > > > The history is clear and they've just reinvented the model for
> > > > internet but proactively enforced by technology rather than studying
> > > > your usage patterns or whatever they used to do, scan for business ads
> > > > using "residential" numbers, beyond bandwidth usage analysis.
> > > >
> > > > And the CATV companies are trying to reinvent CATV pricing for
> > > > internet, turn Netflix (e.g.) into an analogue of HBO and other
> > > > premium CATV services.
> > > >
> > > > What's so difficult to understand here?
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >        -Barry Shein
> > > >
> > > > The World              | bzs () TheWorld com           |
> > > > http://www.TheWorld.com
> > > > Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD        | Dial-Up: US, PR,
> > > > Canada
> > > > Software Tool & Die    | Public Access Internet     | SINCE 1989     *oo*