Re: Binge On! - And So This is Net Neutrality?

[Ethan Katz-Bassett <ethan () cs washington edu>]

On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 3:26 PM Owen DeLong <owen () delong com> wrote:

> > On Nov 23, 2015, at 14:58 , Mark Andrews <marka () isc org> wrote:
> >
> >
> > In message <E24772E7-A95B-4866-9630-2B1023EBD4FD () delong com <mailto:
> E24772E7-A95B-4866-9630-2B1023EBD4FD () delong com>>, Owen DeLong write
> > s:
> > > > On Nov 23, 2015, at 14:16 , Christopher Morrow
> > > <morrowc.lists () gmail com> wrote:
> > > > On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 5:12 PM, Owen DeLong <owen () delong com> wrote:
> > > > > Except there’s no revenue share here. According to T-Mobile, the
> > > streaming partners
> > > > > aren’t paying anything to T-Mo and T-Mo isn’t paying them. It’s kind
> > > of like zero-rating
> > > > > in that the customers don’t pay bandwidth charges, but it’s different
> > > in that the service
> > > > > provider isn’t being asked to subsidize the network provider (usual
> > > implementation of
> > > > > zero-rating).
> > > >
> > > > equal exchange of value doesn't have to be dollars/pesos/euros
> > > > changing hands right?
> > > > -chris
> > >
> > > Sure, but I really don’t think there’s an exchange per se in this case,
> > > given that T-Mo
> > > is (at least apparently) willing to accommodate any streaming provider
> > > that wants to
> > > participate so long as they are willing to conform to a fairly basic set
> > > of technical criteria.
> >
> > No. This is T-Mo saying they are neutral but not actually being so.
> > This is like writing a job add for one particular person.
> >
> > Its just as easy to identify a UDP stream as it is a TCP stream.
> > You can ratelimit a UDP stream as easily as a TCP stream.  You can
> > have congestion control over UDP as well as over TCP.  Just because
> > the base transport doesn't give you some of these and you have to
> > implement them higher up the stack is no reason to throw out a
> > transport.
>
> Are there a significant number (ANY?) streaming video providers using UDP
> to deliver their streams?
>
> I admit I’m mostly ignorant here, but at least the ones I’m familiar with
> all use TCP.

Interesting discussion.

Minor point answering Owen's question: YouTube is a major streaming video
provider that uses UDP:
http://blog.chromium.org/2015/04/a-quic-update-on-googles-experimental.html
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/slides/slides-94-tcpm-8.pdf (see slide
4)