nanog mailing list archives
Re: Does AT&T provide IPv4HT ?
From: "JIM FLEMING" <jfleming () anet com>
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 14:12:52 -0600
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From: Sonia Arrison <sarrison () pacificresearch org> To: "'canucks () canadiansintheus com'" <canucks () canadiansintheus com> Subject: CANUCKS: High speed Net access not an essential Canadian service -
yet
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 11:16:33 -0800 X-URL: Canucks is at http://www.canadiansintheus.com/ And here's some background on the high speed Net access debate in the U.S.: http://www.handsofftheinternet.org/NewsAction.asp?FormMode=Articles&ID=1742
541301
http://www.pacificresearch.org/issues/tech/00-03forcedaccess.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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http://www.thestar.com/apps/AppLogic+FTContentServer?GXHC_gx_session_id_Futu reTenseContentServer=d565d47d87474ca6&pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1& c=Article&cid=974494446237&call_page=TS_Business&call_pageid=968350072197&ca ll_pagepath=Business/News
CRTC eyes gripes over high-speed Net service Regulator could deem connection essential service Tyler Hamilton Technology Reporter Canada's telecommunications regulator says consumers who are fed up with poor high-speed Internet services have a reason to be concerned and he may have to look at the matter more closely. David Colville, vice-chairman of telecommunications of the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission, told The Star yesterday that the commission hasn't designated high-speed Internet service essential ``yet.'' ``But I recognize that among small businesses in particular it's becoming that,'' he said, adding that the CRTC is aware of the network and customer service problems related to high-speed products from Bell Canada and Rogers Cable. [...] ------------------------------------------------------------------------- CANUCKS -- the moderated mailing list for Canadians living in the U.S. For details, visit http://www.canadiansintheus.com/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology You may redistribute this message freely if it remains intact. To subscribe, visit http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel Golding <dan () netrail net> To: JIM FLEMING <jfleming () anet com>; <klensin () jck com>; <mcade () att com>; Bellovin,Steven M (Steve) - ALRES <smb () att com> Cc: <nanog () nanog org> Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 2:04 PM Subject: RE: Does AT&T provide IPv4HT ?
All together now... "No one cares, Jim". - Dan Golding -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog () merit edu [mailto:owner-nanog () merit edu]On Behalf Of JIM FLEMING Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 2:28 PM To: klensin () jck com; mcade () att com; Bellovin,Steven M (Steve) - ALRES Cc: nanog () nanog org Subject: Does AT&T provide IPv4HT ? Does AT&T provide, "end-to-end" IPv4 IP Header Transport ? ....with the TOS field untouched ? Jim Fleming http://www.unir.com/images/architech.gif http://www.unir.com/images/address.gif http://www.unir.com/images/headers.gif http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/domainname/130dftmail/unir.txt http://msdn.microsoft.com/downloads/sdks/platform/tpipv6/start.asp ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen Sprunk <ssprunk () cisco com> To: Roeland Meyer <rmeyer () mhsc com>; 'Shawn McMahon' <smcmahon () eiv com>; <nanog () merit edu> Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 1:16 PM Subject: Re: ISPs as content-police or method-policeThus spake "Roeland Meyer" <rmeyer () mhsc com>Please reference any suit regarding breach of contract. Examples abound. Port filtering may be construed as a material breach when the expectation is, that there is to be no port filtering. Access isaccess,even when the customer doesn't know that they are being restricted in their access. That just assures you that they will go ballistic whentheyfind out.If filtering is in the contract, it's hardly breach of contract to perform it.Face it guys, you KNOW that this is basically dishonest. As such, itisindefensible. I would almost bet <amount> that none of the transit providers mentions restrictions, on access, in their contracts. Iwouldalmost bet <1/2 amount> that NONE of the access providers mention same in THEIR contracts.AT&T, I believe, was the first major provider to start filtering port 25; here's the relevant part of their contract: http://www.att.net/general-info/terms.html "AT&T reserves the right to block, filter or delete Unsolicited E-Mails." While it doesn't explicitly state how they intend to "block, filter or delete" spam, filtering port 25 by default can be reasonably construed to fit that definition, and is therefore within the contract. Ths is also promising: "don't send materials that contain viruses, worms, or any other destructive elements; ... You may not use or attempt to use the Service to violate its security or the security of systems accessible through it, ... you should secure your computer equipment so that only authorized users can gain access to your Service account." You could claim that these sections authorize blocking of QAZ et al, since the activity of worms is prohibited. Also, customers are required to secure their computers to prevent intrusion, so leaving any blatantly insecure protocol like SMB enabled might be breach of contract. Wholesale blocking of SMB might even be allowed. Of course, I wouldn't want to use that logic in court, but a good lawyer could probably pull it off. I'd prefer to insert more specific wording into the contract first.The general expectation is for clear and open pipes. Put suchrestictioninto your contracts and you will lose customers.As long as a user can request the filters be removed (as in AT&T's case), I doubt anyone will lose customers. In fact, I've seen many ads for ISPs which promote their filtering service with the belief that it will bring them more customers.Don't put them in and start filtering anyway and you will lose court cases...big ones.If an ISP refuses to turn off unrequested filters, and the filters aren't in the contract, I can see a lawsuit. I can also see the customer simply taking their business elsewhere and persuing the matter through the press. As AGIS proved, that turned out to be far more effective than courts. Then again, nobody here seems to be suggesting mandatory filtering. Why is there such a strong objection to opt-out filters, where a single call or email can get the filters turned off? Is using a phone really that difficult? S | | Stephen Sprunk, K5SSS, CCIE #3723 :|: :|: Network Design Consultant, GSOLE :|||: :|||: New office: RCDN2 in Richardson, TX .:|||||||:..:|||||||:. Email: ssprunk () cisco com
Current thread:
- Does AT&T provide IPv4HT ? JIM FLEMING (Nov 21)
- RE: Does AT&T provide IPv4HT ? Daniel Golding (Nov 21)
- Re: Does AT&T provide IPv4HT ? JIM FLEMING (Nov 21)
- Re: Does AT&T provide IPv4HT ? Jesper Skriver (Nov 21)
- Re: Does AT&T provide IPv4HT ? JIM FLEMING (Nov 21)
- RE: Does AT&T provide IPv4HT ? Daniel Golding (Nov 21)